Kerry Washington on Good Hang with Amy Poehler

Hello everyone. Welcome to another

episode of Good Hang. Very, very excited

about our guest today. It is the one,

the only Kerry Washington. Kerry is so

talented. She is so good at so many

things, and we're going to talk about a

lot of those things today. We are going

to talk about growing up in the Bronx.

The Bronx, and how it shaped her, and

what she learned from being from there.

And we're going to talk about her

activism, how she stays connected in a

turbulent and often depressing world.

We're going to talk about Scandal,

because of course. And we're going to

get to the nitty-gritty in in a lot of

that. And we're we're we're going to

talk about Amazing Race. A a random show

that we talk about and talk about how

good it is for kids. We're going to talk

about her new TV show, Imperfect Women,

with Elisabeth Moss and Kate Mara,

that's coming out on Apple. All of these

things are going to be discussed today.

But most importantly, we're going to

discuss her with someone who loves her.

And who is that person? Fitz. That's

right. Tony Goldwyn, writer, producer,

director, just coming off of directing

Shay Joey, a new

musical with Savion Glover, that is

hopefully on its way to Broadway. We're

catching Tony right after

rehearsal. He's He's tired. And still,

he can't wait to profess his admiration

for his co-star. So, let's see if we can

get him on the Zoom horn. Tony, are you

there?

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Tony?

Hi Amy, how are you? Thank you for

talking to us today because I have to

say that

the relationship that you and Kerry had

on screen and off screen is really

really wonderful to watch and people are

very invested in it. And what I what I

have to say is what I glean from the the

the way you two interact with each other

is a deep mutual respect. Mhm. Deep deep

respect for the way you work and the

kind of people that you are. Can you

tell us how you first met?

>> My first recollection, we may have met

briefly before this was at the

Democratic Convention when Obama became

president in 2008

in Denver which was a really incredible

experience.

You bet. And then and we kind of became

friends through kind of social activism

and stuff but didn't know each other

well.

But for me when Shonda asked me to do

Scandal and she told me Kerry Washington

was doing it

I uh

I Kerry was an actress who every time I

saw her in a movie I found myself going

who is that actress in that role cuz she

was so different in every movie she did

and at the end of the credits you know

I'd look and I'd go oh my god that's

Kerry Washington. She just was so great

in in everything I saw whether it was

Ray or Last King of Scotland and I

remember seeing her in that.

>> Yes. But again totally different than

anything I'd seen. So I I was just like

god I hope I get a chance to work with

her. So when Shonda said to me she's

like are you going to play the president

in my new show? And I was like

well Shonda Rhimes writing a president

that should be pretty interesting when

she said and Kerry Washington I was like

you and Kerry Washington I'm in. Had you

known Shonda before? Had you worked with

Shonda before? Yeah, I met Shonda. I

directed the I think the second or third

episode of Grey's Anatomy.

>> Oh, wow. Yeah, it was one of the first

TV things I'd done. I'd directed a

couple of movies and then

Betsy Beers, Shonda's partner, called me

and said, you know, we'd like would you

consider doing uh Grey's Anatomy? And I

saw the pilot of that show and said,

wow, this is amazing. Of course. I was

just getting used to directing TV. So, I

did that. And Shonda and I met and she

was brand new to television. Little did

we know she was going to become empress

of the universe. Yeah, totally.

>> But I knew the second I met Shonda, too.

I was like, oh, this woman's the real

deal. It's so interesting that you and

Kerry met in real life doing

um political work. I'm really in awe of

how she stays connected to the real

world while also playing these people.

Like those two things don't always

happen. She does. I mean, first of all,

she's like

to she's got this

amazing husband, Nnamdi. She's got she's

a totally fully devoted mom of three

kids and a you know, and and um

and her perfect and yet she's a thou

she's like a thousand percent in

everything she does. I don't know how

she does it and I can't ask her cuz

she's too modest. She'd just like laugh

in my face if I was like, you're

amazing, how do you do it? You know, she

she wouldn't take it. Yeah. So, you

know,

um

I'm

I've I've I've learned a lot. I learn I

always learn a lot from her.

>> What was it like? She was kind of the

leader of the show. She was number one

on that call sheet. Kerry um from the

get-go. We had an amazing cast of great

people, all grown-ups, no you know,

jerks in in the cast. But Kerry set

a tone by example. She worked harder

than anybody. And then that role, she

worked so hard. I have a funny story we

have like talk about leading by example.

And I think it was maybe

our fifth season or something like that.

Uh to pre when we were going to premiere

the season, Good Morning America wanted

us to be on the show, but they wanted us

to be on as their opening at 7:00 a.m.

to do it. So, we're like, "Great, great,

great, great, great." And then I was in

the makeup trailer and somebody else was

like, "Wait, so we're in LA. Wait, 7:00

a.m. means we're like 4:00 a.m. we have

to be here." Where were we working so

and everyone started sort of bitching

and moaning about having to be That

means you have to get up and the girls

are like, "And that means we got to get

up at 2:30 to be in hair and makeup."

Like, "I don't know, do you want to do

it? I'm not sure what Well, did you want

to And I'm kind of like, "Well, I I I

don't know. I mean, you guys want to do

it." So, I don't have to get made up

that much. So, we're like, "Well, what

should we do? What do we think?" Well,

let's just see what So, we were it was

one of those things of actors kind of

thing where we're like

like children. And we go to the I'm on

set and one of the Darby and I, Darby

Stanchfield, a wonderful Darby

Stanchfield was in our cast. We're

talking about it and Kerry walks into

the set on the stage. She wasn't working

there. She just walks to say, "Hi." And

Darby's like, "Oh, you know, I wonder if

Kerry wants to do Good Morning America."

Like, "Maybe I I was like, "Well, why

don't you go ask her and see what she

feels about it." So, Darby goes up to

Kerry and this is classic Kerry

Washington. And Darby goes, "Kerry, um

you know, I this Good Morning America

thing that's happening at like 7:00 a.m.

and that means we got to get there like

2:00 in the morning and and I'm just

wondering why And Kerry's like,

"Of course we're doing it. Darby, we're

in season five and ABC wants to promote

us by putting us on Good Morning

America. Like, of course we're getting

up at 2:00 in the morning to do this.

Like, isn't it amazing that they want to

put us on their opening of their show?"

And Darby goes, "Yes."

And then,

I think it's so fantastic. She comes

running over to me and I'm like,

"Yep."

And this is

That's quintessential Kerry Washington.

I mean, I want to talk to her about that

because she has this work ethic that's

really really you can feel it. And and

it's and it's you know,

it it feels very collaborative and

inclusive. It It feel like strident, but

I I'm really curious where she gets it

from. I don't know. It's for real. It's

just for real. It comes out of a kind of

joy and passion and some

intense inner drive that she does have.

I mean, you know, no one works as hard

as she. Just something drives her. Part

of it I think is

I mean, she's a

She has a lot of gifts to give the

world.

You know,

and a limited amount of time to give

them. Well, I want to ask her about

that. How does she stay, you know, how

do you stay How does one stay involved

in in this time of like deep fatigue and

deep like every day is really feels

really harder and rougher than the next

and there's a lot of people hurting and

a lot of people struggling. How do you

stay

How do you stay in it? It's a It's a big

question and she's got an answer for

herself which I think could be

useful to all of us. I mean, I want to

ask her about that. I sort of had two

things that I would

>> what do you What do you mean? What do

you want to ask?

As I told you, if I asked her myself,

she'd laugh in my face.

Um

You know, we talked about her activism

and Carrie is an activist.

She's not a normal celebrity activist

which is a great thing, you know, people

who donate their time and their money

and their uh image and their passion to

to things that they care about. Carrie

does it on a level of

next to maybe Jane Fonda, I've never

seen anybody like that. She's it's

it's a it's become a fully

professionalized, fully operational part

of her business. Mhm. It's like she

doesn't do anything If I'm going to do

it, I'm going to do it for real and have

a major impact. Um and uh

Yeah, so I just would love to hear her

talk about how that became so

professional, so full on, you know.

>> Yeah. And then I guess the second thing

I was I wanted to ask her which I could

never She would never answer to me

is the drive we talked about. Like And I

wonder as a parent

like

when you have that much drive as a human

being, I was curious to know does she

like impart that to them or is it

something that she just lays back and

has to dial that back in order to let

them

kind of be them or find it for

themselves. You know, I wonder. You know

what I mean? There's something about

that.

>> No, we do this.

>> It's Yeah, like how do you lead by

example? How do you figure out what is

the right thing for your kid?

>> Mhm. Before you go, and and those are

great questions and I want to talk to

her about both the things and they're

areas that I want to get into with her.

What does it feel like to have done a

show that's so still so beloved? I mean,

people

feel such a connection to that show

still. It is

and and of those characters. I'll just

say it reminds me a little bit of

when me and Adam Scott talk about our

characters on Parks and Rec. Like we

love we love Ben and Leslie's love. Mhm.

Like we love their love. Um and it feels

like you and Kerry both get that where

people are into you your characters'

love.

Yeah. Like what does that feel like?

>> thing. It's a beautiful thing and it

constantly amazes me. I mean, I guess

because of Netflix and whatnot, people

just this past month or two have been

coming up to me a whole lot going, "Oh

my god, I just finished Scandal. I just

discovered like people are just

discovering it." And I'm like, "Didn't

we finish that 7 years ago?"

And we had such a beautiful like you

said about you and and and Adam.

We had such a beautiful time doing it

and um

a group of deep friendships were made

which more than any other job I've ever

done. You know, I have some really close

friends from over the years that I've

worked with, but that group was like

your high school best friends

uh for 7 years and and we're all still

really tight. Well, I I so appreciate

you talking to us. Thank Thank the

questions. Kerry will be so happy that

we talked. Such a fan. Congrats on the

musical. Cannot wait to see it. Cannot

wait till it goes to Broadway. Cannot

wait till it wins the Tony and

eventually turns into a film that you

direct.

Thanks, Evan. Tell Carrie I love her. I

will. I will. Thank you so much, Tony.

Thanks for your time. Bye. It was great

seeing you.

>> Bye. You, too.

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Ooh, you're in a denim sandwich.

>> I am. So happy that you're here. Thanks

for doing this.

>> I'm so excited.

>> I want to start because I'm obsessed

with New York kids. Oh. I mean, I grew

up in the suburbs of Boston. Kids who

grew up in New York, they're just

>> We're a different breed.

>> You are, and you grew up in the Bronx. I

did. What was it like growing up in the

Bronx, little Carrie? What was the Bronx

like when you were growing up?

>> The thing about being from the Bronx,

and I just did a speech about this, a

whole entire speech, because I was

presenting Jennifer Lopez with an award,

and she and I went to the same Boys and

Girls Club in the Bronx, and I was

saying in the speech that

the Bronx is like the underdog borough.

It's like the forgotten borough. You

know, like Brooklyn had Spike Lee and

Queens has all the airports and the

cemeteries and like a story, but the

Bronx is like the forgotten borough, and

people

don't expect much of you when you're

from the Bronx, and so there's like a

hustle. There's a certain kind of hustle

and determination to make it if you if

there's something you want to do.

There's a different kind of strength and

resilience, I think, from people who are

from the Bronx. I agree. It feels It

feels like the And also Fred Armisen

does a really funny bit about this. Fred

does all the accents of different parts

of New York, and he always talks about

the Bronx.

>> Yes. And how it's so Even the word

>> Mhm.

>> with an X in it.

>> So, it's also Yes, it has an X. It's

also the only borough that has a the in

front of it.

You don't say the Brooklyn. The Bronx.

>> The Bronx. It's like a thing. Yes.

>> thing. It's so true, and there's a vibe

I mean, it's a working-class vibe,

certainly.

>> Yes, for sure.

>> And a and a sense of pride, but you're

right. There is a There is a It's like a

scrappy, scruffy, hustler

>> vibe to it that I'm really proud of.

Super I don't think I would, you know,

have the things I have or have done the

I have to tell you this is a little bit

of a tangent, but I have to get I don't

want to forget to say this. When I this

morning when I got up, I was thinking

about I was prepping for this interview.

You're such a good You're such a good

student.

>> I was like I remember my first Time 100

dinner that I ever had the blessing to

attend. You were one of the Time 100

recipients.

And your speech changed my life. It was

extraordinary because you

got up. You It was like you stood up at

the tables. Do you remember this?

Everybody stood up in the room at the

tables and you thanked

your nanny. That's who you thanked in

your speech. Yeah.

I owe my own my nan- nannies.

>> Nannies.

>> A lot. And I I was thinking about it

this morning because it it really moved

me. I got very emotional at But I was

like, I wasn't even a mom then. I wasn't

a mom yet. And I think Like now when I

think about it, it I it's one of the

things I love about you because you do

credit the people who make it possible,

right? And I know like I'd be nothing

without the support that I have with

childcare or in home, all that.

But also,

I think growing up in the Bronx, my

grandmother, like I went to a very fancy

Upper East Side. I went to the same

school Gwyneth went to. I went to this

fancy Upper East

Upper East Side school.

My grandmother used to cook and clean

houses in that neighborhood. Mhm. And so

I think there was a part of me that when

you got up and

thanked your support team, your home

staff, it made me feel like my family

was seen. Like it made me think of my

grandmother and like you were thinking

the people that other people like to

ignore or pretend don't exist or want to

like marginalize. It just was so moving.

Carrie, thank you for saying that. I I I

think they people like to make the

hardworking class often invisible.

>> Yes. And also, it's just mean to other

women cuz it's like nobody's doing this

alone.

>> Nobody's doing this by themselves.

That's right. And you don't get more

credit by making other humans invisible.

Like it doesn't make you more perfect to

Well, you I feel like a lot of the work

that you do is exactly that, is making

sure that people feel visible and feel

seen. Like whether it's the art you're

making or the stuff that you're fighting

for. yeah. it makes sense to me that

like And it would impact me that way.

Yeah, I heard it that way. Mhm. Um

before I pass by J. Lo. Yeah, yeah. Just

a little mic drop on J. Lo. Just yeah.

She taught me how to dance. Can you just

tell us the

What do you mean?

So we had this dance teacher named Larry

Maldonado. Mhm.

And Larry was a dream. Larry taught me

so much. He was like this very eccentric

gay man dance teacher and he ran the

dance program

at the Boys and Girls Club and he got

really sick in the '80s, like a lot of

people did.

And

Jennifer is not that much older than me,

but she's a little bit older than me, so

she was one of the big girls at the

club. And so when Larry went into the

hospital, she started teaching dance.

Wow. She was teaching the little girls

classes. So I mean if I was like eight,

she was 16 or something like that, but

she was teach so I learned like hip-hop

and flamenco and like all

I learned to dance from Jennifer. She's

never hired me to dance in any of her

videos, but yeah, I don't know what that

says, but

That's wild. Because when you're that

age and there's like a 16-year-old girl,

they're just and they're good, they're

the most beautiful, talented yes. I

remember right before she left to go off

to L.A. to pursue her dream of being

famous,

um she did this duet dance with Larry.

So he must have gotten better and was

back and it was like very risqué. Like

the that we weren't supposed to watch

it. The the little girls were like you

know this is not for you. It was like

later on in the dance program, but we

all hid in the wings cuz we could not

watch it. And it was beautiful. She was

beautiful and it was just

Yeah, she was she's always been a real

inspiration for me.

>> so cool. What a fun like like slight to

use a Gwyneth term, like sliding doors

moment where you like you see you again

in 20 years in a different way.

>> Wild, so wild. And you went to Spence

and you were in Midsummer Night's Dream

with Gwyneth.

>> With Gwyneth. It's the only time I've

ever worked with her.

You've not worked with J-Lo or Gwyneth

since?

>> No. You guys, I'm good. We have history.

I'm available.

Gwyneth, Jennifer. Who were you in

Midsummer because I was also in that

play?

>> Who were you? Oh, you were Puck. I wish.

>> Who were you?

>> I was Peaseblossom.

>> Of course you were. That's very cute.

>> And I was a fairy, too, and I don't

remember which one.

>> I know, they're all named the same. You

might have been Peaseblossom.

>> I was. So me. So I just kind of I was

like a just like a background dancer.

>> Yes, yes, same. Did you know I mean, I

feel like you could do many things well.

You do do many things well.

>> My kids would argue with you, but I like

that you think that. And I feel like you

know, there's probably a point in your

life where you had to have a real like,

you know, you grew up around a lot of

artists, you knew from an early age that

you were a creative person, but did you

make a decision like I'm going to be I'm

going to be an actress?

>> Yeah, I did.

>> age? So I was halfway through college.

>> Okay, yeah, pretty late. Yeah, pretty

late. And I went to college on an acting

scholarship, which I didn't even know

existed, but and it was sort of like

being on a basketball scholarship. Like

I went I had to audition for all the

plays. I really got benched. I got to do

a lot of theater.

>> Right.

>> Um and so that was maybe the beginning

of being like, oh, people will give me

money, like significant amounts of money

to do this cuz it was helping to pay for

my education. But then halfway through

college I did this um summer

conservatory program at Michael Howard

Studios in Chelsea in New York.

And that was the first time in my life

that from the moment I woke up, you

know, to the moment I went to bed, all I

did was act. There was no like hiding

behind other class work or being an

academic or it just was like I was just

an artist all day long every day.

And I was so happy.

>> it.

>> so happy.

>> Yeah. And I was doing like clown work

and improv and scene study and acting as

a business class and I just was like I

couldn't get enough.

>> Yeah.

>> to sleep there at night. I just I I was

like I So I thought, "Okay,

I'm going to try to do this." I gave

myself 1 year after college, and I was

like, "If I can get a significant job in

this year, then I'll go for it." And it

But at the same time I had like the

workbooks next to my bed to study for

the LSAT.

>> That's what I get for Oh, LSATs.

Interesting.

>> Yeah, I thought maybe grad school for

psych, but I But that even was like I'm

going to try for law school first. And

in a in a again, sliding doors way, you

would be what kind of lawyer? Right now

I'm thinking of like all's fair. I'd be

like a badass divorce lawyer, sexy Sarah

Paulson type. But I don't know.

Whatever it is, it'd be sexy. is, it'd

be sexy.

>> heels.

Um I don't know. Maybe I'd be like an

Olivia Pope. Like maybe the Maybe the

like the souls or the energy in your

life gets to you no matter how, you

know? So maybe I would have been a

crisis person, and I figured out how to

be that person. I mean, my mom, who

desperately did not want me to be an

artist, she's a professor of education,

and she was like, "I just I don't want

you to starve." You know, she just the

idea of a starving art. Okay, but I

brought my parents with me the first

time I was at the Emmys. The first time

I was nominated at the Emmys, I brought

them, and

>> That's nice. we were sitting at sitting

at the Governors Ball, and my mom's like

cutting into her steak, and I was like,

"ANYBODY STARVING?"

SHE WAS LIKE, "YOU'RE DOING OKAY." Um

but I I think Oh god, I lost my train of

>> thought. No, I think that was not a

humble story to tell. No, I love that

story. And also, what I feel like is is

you gave yourself a year, and in that

year something big happened.

>> Yes. What was the break?

>> You're good at this.

>> Yeah, I'm good I'm good at listening.

Thanks. Let's brag about ourselves for a

second.

You're so good at this. You kept track.

It's really my one job because you're

not intimidated by the tangents. I like

I can bring us back.

And I honestly, it's I if the if you

care to know,

>> I it's

if if you care to know

>> I do.

>> about the tangents. I don't know if you

think I'm much more of a rememberer.

>> Uh-huh. So I think about a tangent when

when you're talking, I think about

literally a line going out like this and

I picture it going out like that and I'm

like just don't forget to get it.

>> Ooh.

>> I actually visualize it so I don't

forget it. Do you do that in your improv

work? Like when you're doing when you're

doing a sketch, it's really similar,

right?

>> things in order to remember them. Like I

try to give it some kind of like picture

in my mind. Yeah, because you have to in

the scene work let it go some you have

to be open to the exploration, but then

also remember you got to land the plane.

So your first big break. See? Did you

see that was magic? Did you see that

happen?

Okay.

>> What is What would you consider your cuz

there's a lot of things that could be

your first big break.

>> Yes. I think so I gave myself this year

and in that year I booked my very first

film which was called Our Song which is

actually having its 25th anniversary

this year. Tell us about that film. It

was this really tiny scrappy independent

film. I mean our entire transport

department consisted of like four metro

cards.

Renting and buying metro cards.

>> Exactly.

We had no wardrobe department. I mean it

it was it was it was an incredible

experience cuz it was we were stealing

shots on the subway. We didn't have

permits. But it was a story of these

three girls growing up in Brooklyn and I

wanted this part so badly. I learned to

be in a marching band to be in the movie

cuz it was about a summer in these three

girls' lives in Brooklyn that are all

part of this marching band.

It was the best experience. I When I was

a kid we lived in this high-rise that

was across the water from LaGuardia

Airport and we were like in a flight

path where at the 12th floor which was

the top floor these airplanes would fly

by when I was a kid and I would always

want to be on those airplanes. Like

where are they going? I wanted to be on

those planes like explore other places

and have adventures. And when we were

filming Our Song, we were stealing shots

on the A train in Far Rockaway close to

Kennedy Airport and I remember sitting

on the train and a plane going over and

thinking, "Nope, there's nowhere else I

want to be. I want to be right here

doing what I'm doing. You can't put me

on a plane right now. I am like in

This is it. This is it. I'm in the

pocket.

>> That's such a cool feeling. I mean, you

kind of wish it for everybody, right?

That whatever they're doing they realize

like this is exactly what I want to be

doing.

>> Yeah, I wish that for my kids. I wish it

for myself even like project to project

cuz sometimes you sign on for something

and you're like, "Oh, this is exactly

what I thought it would be or better.

Like this is better than I could have

imagined and it feels so good." And

sometimes you're like, "What time is

lunch?" Yeah.

I know When you When did you first

>> We're super lucky to be doing what we

do. We're blessed.

>> really hard. I think it's as hard as

coal mining.

I think acting is brain surgery. I think

acting is harder than brain surgery.

>> I don't know why more actors don't win

the Nobel Prize.

>> Yeah, I agree.

>> Cuz we bring peace.

>> When people talk about brain surgery,

I'm like,

"Try acting." Honestly?

>> Seriously for one day.

>> like in your brain doing surgery.

Exactly. I'm in other people's brains.

You know what I mean?

>> Yeah, multiple patients a year.

WHO'S STARVING NOW?

SEE WHAT I MEAN?

>> SEE WHAT SHE DOES? It's brilliant.

Okay, yeah. Tell me when you first heard

about Scandal. Was it written for you?

>> Uh-uh. I mean, Shonda one of one. She's

one of one.

>> What an incredible

like phenom of a human.

>> truly.

>> So, it was an idea It was an idea out

there that you heard about and did you

feel like I I have got to get that?

>> So, you know, there's been a lot of talk

when Scandal came out, a lot of the

headlines were like, "This is the first

time that a black woman is leading a

network drama in almost 40 years." Like

it hadn't happened in my lifetime, I'd

never seen it in a network drama. So,

you can imagine that when word on the

street was that there was a show that

was starring a black woman that was

going to be on ABC, like people went

crazy. Everybody wanted to read for it.

And God bless Shonda, she was like, "I

didn't have the heart to say no." So,

she read everybody from like 15 to 85.

Everybody wanted to be Olivia Pope. She

read everybody. She met with tons of

people. Um I heard about the project and

I was really a film actor. It was that

time when like film actors were starting

to do television.

>> movie, you were Chris Rock's movie.

>> done Ray, I had done Last King of

Scotland.

So, it was like I I was like the good

luck charm. Like if you hire me to play

your wife, you win an Academy Award.

Forest Whitaker, Jamie Fox. So, I

I wasn't hesitant to do television cuz I

was starting to see that there were

these incredible women like Glenn Close

was doing Damages. And you know, you

were starting to see it that there were

opportunities for women to play

anti-heroes and have like more rich

experience in television. And movie

stars were doing more TV. And so I So,

I wanted to read the script. I was like,

"If it's great, I'll consider it." And I

read it and I was like, I It was one of

those things where like I threw the

script across the room cuz I was like,

"This is I have to play her. It's for

me." Like no I have to The unfortunate

thing where there were like 10 other

actresses who felt the same way.

And so we all auditioned and auditioned

and auditioned.

>> and come in and come in? I met with her

first. Because I was at a certain place

in my career, I could do a meeting

first. So, I met with her. And I

remember getting off the elevator and

there was a huge sign that said

Shondaland and I was like, "Oh, I don't

know about this."

Right. Like it's your land.

>> Right. Like what does that mean? Right.

have a country I live in.

>> Yeah, you know you always want to be

careful when people say their own name

too much. It's It can be Yeah, you never

know. And then I sat down with her and I

was like, I'm in. Yeah.

>> Like I will give up my citizenship to

live where in this land of yours. It was

I just I loved her. It's interesting you

have to play a character who has to kind

of like take care of other people.

>> Yeah. And do you feel like in playing

that character you learn anything about

how you take care of other people in

your life? Like are you a fixer? I could

and almost did write an entire book on

the things I learned from Olivia Pope.

Ooh.

>> She taught me

>> a couple chapters.

>> so much. The The biggest thing was she

and I feel like you'll really understand

this. She taught me how to be a number

one. Mhm. Like at work and in my life.

She taught me how to like step into

leadership and not shy away from it and

to

be team captain to not be afraid of it.

That whole like it's my name on that

door. Like she taught me to not be

afraid of that. Cuz I always thought I

mean I had this role model of Jennifer

Lopez, but I was like I'm not that. Like

I'm not that pretty and I don't dance

like that and I just I thought I'm never

going to be the kind of actor who's like

on the cover of magazines. I'm just

going to I My goal was to have a career

where I could pay the bills, do a few

commercials a year, do a lot of theater,

and like just live a happy artist life.

So she really taught me like to not be

afraid to step into more. Yeah. And that

was extraordinary. And yes, I think

there was there is with her

I don't know if she taught me how to be

a fixer. I think I brought a lot of that

to her. Like it was written that way. I

don't mean to say I invented it, but I

already understood

the need to want to make

things around me better. Yeah.

>> help people and to like that's in me.

It's a little bit of like an only child

thing, and um

maybe a little bit of my own

codependency. Like there there there is

some something in me that wants

to help other people. I mean, even that

joke I made about like if you hire me to

play your wife, you'll win an Academy

Award. Like I do take a lot of pride in

the fact that I think

when I go home at night, I want to know

not only that I did my best work as an

actor, but I take a lot of pride in

helping other actors do their best work

across from me in the scene.

>> Sure.

>> Like I want my scene partner to be like,

"Whoa, I didn't know I like you know

that you can do things to like push each

other and and make it better." And like

that idea of the water we all rise

together. Like I love that. I love

helping people win. I mean, I think

that's the best thing about TV is like

when you're locked into a part that you

love and with people that you love. Like

I know you love Tony. I you love your

cast. Like you're in a marriage. You're

really in like a long marriage where you

have to like each other.

>> Yes. Yes, it's family. It's really

interesting because this is like what

the fans don't want to hear, but I I

really am so grateful for the healthy

relationships that I was able to have

also with the men on that show. Like

Scott Foley and Tony Goldwyn. Like I

love their wives. They love my husband.

Like there's so much

>> Okay, well, let's talk about this. Yeah,

let's talk about this.

>> about this is people ship you guys all

the time.

>> hard. And we by the way, we like to [ __ ]

with people. Like we I

>> Of course.

>> stuff all the time with Tony. Like And

that's how you can tell everyone's

secure.

>> Yeah. Yes.

>> That's how you can tell.

>> key. Because you can tell that

everybody's feeling totally fine and

enjoying it and it cuz when people don't

do that

>> then you can't [ __ ] around.

>> That's the scandal. Hey! No, but I mean,

it's it is it's like

what that's what the sense I got from

watching you two work together and

and full disclosure, we talked to Tony

for this podcast.

>> What?

What did he tell you?

I'll tell you.

>> Tell me all the things. I love him so

much.

>> I know. And

>> If he said anything bad, I'll kill him.

And um L- it it he is a

>> you that he likes my husband better than

he likes me? Cuz that's the truth.

>> Well, I'm obsessed with your husband.

>> I am, too.

>> Naughty was so funny on the Kroll Show,

by the way.

>> so good on the Kroll Show. He was

so funny.

He's really funny.

>> I love him.

>> Yeah. And to Okay, so you're saying like

you guys were able to have a healthy

working appropriate

platonic relationship where you were

able to discover these characters

together and enjoy the fact that people

love them together.

>> Yes. We I love that people ship them. I

love it. I love it so much. I love that

people get into arguments like oh Lake,

oh Litz, all that stuff. It's I love it.

And I love that you know

that we gave people romance. You know,

that we gave people escapism, that we

that we made people think, that we made

people feel. I love all of that.

>> You had two kids while you were doing

your show.

>> Yes. I also had children when I was

doing a show. It's very hard.

>> it wild?

>> the way, never really I don't think I

really knew that. I mean, it never

really sunk in that you you were

>> my kids were being hidden behind boxes

and Prada bags. So, you had them both

though. You were You had You were

pregnant and gave birth on both with

both during show? Yes.

>> Dang.

>> Yes. That's hard.

That's hard. I'm just going to That's

all I have no question.

Because

>> I only It's hard.

>> It's a thing. But also, I was so so

blessed because Shonda also had young

kids and we built a playroom on the lot

and Viola had a daughter and How to Get

Away was on the same lot. And so, we

would We had this playroom like I had my

kids at work with me all the time. I

figured out how to nurse during, you

know, camera turnarounds. I was like, I

need 15 minutes. Get on.

Um and I just I loved it. I love my my

kids are set kids. They're set kids.

They They are comfortable on a set,

which is important cuz I went with my

mom to when she was teaching, I went to

her office and I would sit in her

lecture halls and I want them to know

that what I do is work, that I'm that

I'm working, you

>> Um okay, we talked to Tony. Yes, okay.

Oh, yeah. How did I forget? Okay, what

did he say? Um I mean, he's he's your

biggest fan.

>> Aw. And you know, there's so many things

about you that like, you know, he I

mean, we talked about like

the fact that you're the the the amazing

activist that you are, the way that you

stay engaged with the world, the way

that you make sure that um you use your

currency for good.

>> Mhm. And how important it is to you and

how impressive it is to people. I mean,

you have been working tirelessly for a

long time and talking to people about

what matters to you and what matters to

this country and what matters to the

world. How do you stay engaged right

now, Kerry? It's tough. It is really

tough.

>> And people are feeling super fatigued

>> Mhm. and really feeling numb and checked

out.

>> Yeah. And um

feeling disconnected and feeling

discouraged. How are you staying

connected and not opting out? Any

advice? Do you know that toxic

positivity thing that people talk about

of like

>> Well aware of it.

>> Yeah, right. I'm I'm I don't want to do

that.

>> I mean, I I I don't want to But this is

not that.

>> No, I don't think it is, but it is

You're right. It's always like, you

don't want to be like, "It's going to be

>> I mean,

great. No, somethings are really

horrible right now.

>> Y'all it's bad.

>> Yeah, but I also don't want to bury my

head in the sand because I think it's

really important to to stay open-hearted

and to ask myself, "What am I willing to

do?" Cuz that's changed also. Like I

think every day each person and every

day there's a different level of what we

can give. So I I keep trying to ask

myself like what am what am I able to do

today? And some days it's like march for

6 hours for no kings with my entire

family and make seven posters and do it

all. And some days it's like I want to

donate $5 to a community organization.

You know, like there's different

but to not do nothing. To really like

ask of myself to to not do nothing cuz

we can all be doing something whether

and you know that thing with time,

treasure, or talent. Like no matter who

you are you have something you can give

and it can change over time but

I think we all have to be leaning into

solution.

Like in little ways even.

>> The other thing I just want to commend

you on is and it's and definitely from a

um

social media perspective is you also

make things seem fun. Oh, and I know

that that's the that word fun can feel

like I don't know, not

weighted enough but it isn't important.

Because when you ask people for their

time, their energy

it's really hard. I mean people have

really complicated lives.

>> Yeah. And when you ask them to join in

to something, if it looks like it's a

drag a drag they're just yeah. If it

looks like it's a drag they're like I'm

already pretty sad.

>> Yes. Yes.

You know, like

Like I got to take care of my family and

like I hope those other sad people are

also hanging on but I'm sad too.

>> Yeah. But there's something about the

way I find in in how you talk about

things and and and and like thinking

about Tony showing up for things is a

good example of that. Your instinct to

want to make it interesting for the just

this idea of like how can I involve

people is it's it's not an easy thing to

do. So I would say two things about

that. One is that I learned from two

extraordinary women, Eve Ensler who

wrote The Vagina Monologues and Jane

Fonda. And I used to be on a board, like

the the board, the V board we called it

for the Vagina Monologues. And which was

went from being a play to being a global

movement to end violence against women.

And those two women really throughout my

life have taught me that when you're

feeling isolated, alone, and afraid, if

you plug into community and community

activism in particular, but when you

plug into community into like baking

bread for somebody else or making

cookies or driving somebody else's kid

to school or just checking on a

girlfriend who you haven't heard from in

a long time. Like plugging into

community actually helps you feel

better. Like it it being a part of

something bigger than you actually is

like a balm for your soul.

Tony talked also again about like your

incredible mothering. One of his

questions was Oh, he had a question? I'm

not taking questions.

So, you've directed

THAT IS BY THE WAY

you shouldn't take a question.

Don't take a just be like I'd rather not

answer.

I remember doing one of our first it was

like our first all cast appearance on

Good Morning America with the Scandal

cast and none of them had done a lot of

press before.

And I had done all these movies and so I

was like you guys here's the number one

thing to remember cuz they came into the

green room and they were like something

was going on with Angelina Jolie and

Brad Pitt or something and they came in

the green room and they were like do you

do you mind if we ask you and I said

we'd rather not talk about that. And the

whole cast was like whoa. So I said you

guys no matter what anybody asks you

just say what you want to say. Always

say that to people.

Answer whatever question you want. If

someone says

If someone says you've had a you know

there's difficult things going on at

home you can go I mean I think at the

end of the day what's important about us

as a community

>> There you go.

That's it.

That's it.

That's right. It's your interview.

>> forgets what they even asked if you're

good enough. You know why? They don't

know to come back. They don't know. They

don't know how to get back to the

tangent. They don't know how to get back

in there. And if they come back with

like, "But what I asked about?" Then

you're like,

>> Oh, I think we're out of time.

>> "I can't I It's weird. I CAN'T HEAR

YOU."

SPEAKING OF THERAPY, MY THERAPIST USED

TO SAY something that was always like

make me laugh is when someone asked her

an inappropriate like we're talking not

like

reporters, but let's say like a friend

or a colleague who asked something

inappropriate. And if you want to stall

for time, cuz you know like our instinct

is to like react, you can go, "What an

interesting question."

>> the time. I love that.

>> it all the time.

>> "I'm so curious why you asked that."

>> time. That is Or you just like, "That's

a great question."

>> What a good What a great question.

>> wonder what made you ask that question."

>> Yeah. Can you tell Can you unpack that

for me a little bit more?

>> Where did that come from?

>> Where did that question come from? And

then they go,

Okay, what was Tony's question?

>> Okay, his question was um your intense

inner drive when it comes to

you have this inner inner drive which he

really respects. When it comes to being

a mom,

>> Oh. is it something you like want to

instill in your children? Oh.

>> Like and and it's kind of what we talked

about like like how do you push or do

you push? How do you figure out like you

have a very strong work ethic.

>> I do. I'm like a longshoreman of acting.

I mean and I promise we will cut this

part and not keep it in, but have you

ever done the Enneagram test?

You can keep it in. I've done it. I

don't remember. I don't remember what it

is.

>> Enneagram three to me. Achiever achiever

achiever.

>> Oh, interesting.

>> But anyway, I feel like Reese is I feel

like she told me she's a three. Oh,

she's a big time. I would say. Whatever

I am, I remember I told Rashida and

Rashida was like, "Oh, I don't like

those." And I was like, "But we're

friends."

And then it like changed her mind.

>> seven wing six thing for Rashida to say.

Oh, see. I love this about you. I didn't

know that you had this.

>> Do you Now, are you an astrology person

also or just an anyogram?

>> nonsense. NO, I'M KIDDING.

I MEAN, TOTAL [ __ ]

>> YEAH, YEAH.

NUMEROLOGY.

YEAH, ANYOGRAM.

>> he was he was wondering if like your

drive, like how do you Do you Do you try

to instill that

in your kids? You want to lead by

example. Like how do you Cuz I think

what what's underneath that and what I

think is interesting is is what I when I

started with is that you can do many

things well and you work really hard.

How do you instill that in your

children? I do I I think about this

because I feel like they don't have that

thing of being from the Bronx. Right.

>> They don't have that scrappy hustler. At

least they weren't born in the

neighborhood that I think produced it in

me.

And so I wonder where they'll find it.

>> Yeah. I I see I my I My kids are really

resilient and I see it mostly in sports.

That's like their opportunity, their

their place where that gets So, what

kind of sports mom are you? Do you go to

the games?

>> I go to the games.

>> And do you do you cheer?

>> I do and much to the dismay of my

children cuz I'm like a loud cheerer.

>> Are you a after the game, let's say they

have a game and it doesn't go well. What

do you say to them?

There's no wrong answer here.

Really?

>> I mean, unless you like berate them,

which I know you wouldn't, but

Um

Uh How do you

How do you like to approach I really try

to be directed by them. Mhm. Like I try

>> figure out how they're feeling about it.

>> Yeah. And um and ask a lot of questions.

I don't try to like

make it better immediately. I try to

just like Yeah.

>> If I If there was a visual metaphor for

it, I try to like sit on the bench with

them. Oh, that's great.

>> look where they're looking, just give it

some time. It's funny that you do that.

I find that there's a lot of good

conversations when people are looking

forward in the car.

>> With kids especially. Walks in the car.

That like thing of like, "I'm just going

to be here. Like, let me know. Like, was

that hard? Do you feel good?"

>> Mhm. Yeah.

I heard a really cool thing one time.

Again, probably just read it on

Instagram.

Definitely didn't read it in a book.

Definitely didn't read it in a book.

Heard it on a commercial on YouTube.

>> lately, I've been like, "Where did you

get that?" And she's like, "Well, not to

sound like you, but I read it in an

article."

I'M LIKE, "WHAT ARTICLE? LIKE, Time for

Kids?" She's like, "An article."

But,

I I read something one or again, saw

something one time that was like

act like I loved this um metaphor. Act

like a a a small-town reporter with your

kids. So, um just repeat back to them

what they just said as if you're writing

it down in a small notebook. It will

feel so hard.

>> Yes. And

they it was like the less questions you

can ask the better. So, they're like,

"That was a bad game. That was a bad

game.

I sucked. I didn't play well. You didn't

play well." Mhm.

>> Like, you don't say why

the questions can sometimes kind of stop

the the because all you want them to do

is talk.

>> Yes.

>> Oh, that's so good.

>> if you want, you can kind of like

give them a headline back. Like, "So, it

was a bad game and you didn't play

well."

Oh, wow. And they're just like, "Yeah."

And then pause. "Because the coach said

whatever, because the coach said what

like Because that's all all of we we

just want to be witnessed. Like as human

beings, we just want to be witnessed and

heard. And that's such good like, I hear

you, I see you, I'm going to give it

back to you. Like that's

>> Yeah.

>> good. Isn't that a good way to think

about it?

>> good.

>> And as opposed to what my instinct

sometimes is to do is like, well, you

know what I would do.

You know what I think you should say.

>> Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.

>> Yeah. Yeah. And I always ruin it at the

end.

>> Yeah. You've directed a lot. You love

directing. I don't know. I haven't

directed as much as I would like to, so

I need to do more.

>> Mhm. I'm saying that here.

>> And you walk in kind of you walk you've

you've you've walked in other people's

shows. Like you've walked in and you did

Smilf, you did Insecure.

I love directing. What's it What's it

like to walk into a show that's already

running? It's so fun. I mean, I

especially if I love the show and I love

the creatives and I just

I I think the thing I love about

directing is that thing I was talking

about with acting. Like I love to help

other I love to help create an

environment where other people can do

their best work.

>> Mhm. And to help push people toward

excellence, to like unlock the things

that are going to make other people

better, whether it's set design or

acting or a score, like just getting

into a situation to help other people do

what they do best.

>> Yeah. I love that. Yes.

>> I love it. Yeah, and do you think you

want to I mean, have you directed a

feature?

>> I haven't. So, that should be next,

yeah?

>> I think so. I think so.

>> lot of It's a lot of It's a lot of time

away from your family. So, I'm like I

this I was like

So, I did this movie with Ben Affleck

this year and he was like, you need to

find a feature to direct. And I was

like, I have to find a feature that I

like enough to spend that much time away

from my amazing husband and children.

Have you ever heard Sarah Polley talk

about any of this stuff? The amazing

director. She talks a lot about me, too.

And when she did Women Talking, which I

thought was amazing,

>> Mhm.

she talked a lot about how, you know,

there's this you know, we talk obviously

we're always trying to like write the um

the imbalance of not enough female

directors and there's not enough

discussion about the fact that like

women and with kids it's very you have

to give up a lot of time

>> Mhm. and that she was like

hoping and kind of working towards this

idea that you could have these humane

ways of working

>> Mhm.

where more women could direct and she

talked about What that would look like.

Yeah, that she had women on her crew be

able to kind of like what Shonda did

like bring kids to work, try to keep

hours shorter, try to keep prep more

remote, whatever it was so that more

women were incentivized cuz it is like

it's like

it's really really hard to be a woman.

>> choice.

>> Yeah. I So on this film with Ben, he

likes to be home with his kids at for

dinner. And so we were done filming

every single day by 6:37. It meant I was

out before drop off, but I was home for

dinner and bedtime and homework to the

point where my son was like Mom, is your

part not big? Like why are you

You're Like he was worried for my

career. Like why are you home every

night for dinner? Did you get fired? Are

you like pretending to act during the

day?

You're putting on an outfit and sitting

in your car. He was like

Mom

>> He's like be honest. Be honest.

I was like, "No, I have a really big

part." He was like,

Mom, it's okay. It's okay. There are no

small parts, Mom.

But that's so humane.

>> And so we So on Imperfect Women,

it was this extraordinary experience of

all three leads were all moms.

>> Let's talk about this. Who's in the

Imperfect Women with you?

>> Moss and Kate Mara and myself. Um I

mean, our most of our directors are

moms, all of our producer I mean we it

was such a family friendly set and it

was great because the show is really

told from three points of view. So

basically for like a third of the show I

was number one on the call sheet, a

third of the show Kate Mara was number

one on the call sheet and a third of the

show Lizzy was number one on the call

sheet. So we got to all like star in a

show but we all had lots of time to like

do other things. Like in Lizzy's

episodes I'm sort of a glorified extra.

I'm like number six even though I'm not

but it feels like I'm

one of the ensemble and so it was a

really wonderful way to share the load

of the pressure of what it takes to lead

a limited series because we were we

really shared that responsibility.

>> That's really cool.

>> So fun and also it's really great cuz

you got to flex. Like everybody got to

do really meaty I mean these women Kate

Mara and Lizzy Moss are they're they're

beasts of acting. Just extraordinary

talent.

>> I mean I've just

I we re-watched the Mad Men recently.

So good. Good lord. So good.

>> Elizabeth Moss is she's extraordinary.

She's a treasure. She is an incredible

actor.

>> another amazing director. She's an

incredible director.

>> I am not surprised. You like me you've

been in the business a long time and

you've seen it and you've seen it change

and like and expand and grow and the way

things

>> that that I just did? You said things

A long time. A long time baby. Okay.

Remember did you ever smoke cigarettes?

So That's a yes. Casually. Week I was

like a weekend smoker. I was a weekend

smoker for a really long time. No never

bought cigarettes.

>> Well back in the day.

>> for like a boy I really liked and we

shared them. But I wasn't like a real

and then always it was because I would

start smoking because of a character and

then get you know I was like kind of

method with the smoking. Nothing else

just the smoking.

>> Yeah, no. Do you have any like vices

right now that you try to get rid of?

Anything?

>> I Honestly, so this question like I

don't like the guilty pleasure question

cuz I feel like if I'm not killing

anybody, then I don't want to feel

guilty about my pleasure.

>> That's right.

>> My pleasure is like pleasure is good.

>> What What about your hobbies? Like do

you like fake food?

No, but this I know came from that

cookbook. I know Ina Garten. And there's

three

>> Should I have brought you fake food?

>> Not at all, but I just realized

something today and not to put you on

the spot. It's not a psychological test

and your your therapist Julie? Well, no.

Won't mind, but you've got three

different types of burgers there

and I would love to know which one you'd

like to pick. And for people that are

listening,

we've got a candle cheeseburger, we've

got a wooden cheeseburger and we've got

a squishy.

That's satisfying.

>> for the squish. You know who else went

for the squish? MICHELLE OBAMA.

I MEAN, WATER SEEKS ITS OWN LEVEL.

This is so satisfying.

>> Yeah. Excuse me, I'm going to have a

moment.

>> Yeah. ASMR.

>> And I'm not going to feel guilty cuz

it's pleasurable.

>> Yeah. Do you enjoy Do you have any like

>> dark chocolate.

I'm a big dark chocolate girl.

>> And are you a

Are you like an Is there any kind of

knitting hobby situation? I really like

kintsugi. Excuse me?

I did not sneeze. Hold on.

You want to Google it?

>> Mhm.

While While you tell me what it is.

>> is the Japanese art of putting broken

pottery back together again

with gold. Oh, wow.

>> It's so beautiful.

>> Oh, wow. That looks so

>> are so beautiful. And so, I had read

about it a long time ago.

And then, I had this beautiful pottery

that my mom and dad bought for Namdi and

I for our 10-year anniversary. It had

like a Bible verse on the edge. It was

handmade. It was beautiful.

And my kids were playing ball in the

house and they broke it. And they I was

I was able somehow miraculously to

regulate my nervous system in the moment

and not yell. I was like, "Oh."

And they were devastated. My son was

like crying and and I remembered

Kintsugi and I was like, "I'm going to

put this back together." And so I found

this private teacher. This was last year

on my birthday and I went and brought

her these pieces and we

put this bowl back together. And the art

the philosophy of this art is that by

not making the cracks disappear, but by

highlighting them with gold, you

actually bring beauty to the broken

spaces and you honor that the places

where we are wounded and broken are what

make us most beautiful.

It's just so special. So it's very like

meditative and beautiful and so now my

friends give me their broken plates and

bowls and things. But yeah, I I really

enjoyed that.

>> By the way, what a nice thing for your

kids to also see too. Like we make

mistakes. It's okay. We're all human.

>> actually what they say to people when

they ask about it is they're like, "So

now we're part of the bowl, too." Cuz

it's like it's our anniversary bowl.

They Of course they had to be a part of

it.

>> Oh, that's so nice. And I honestly it

reminds me of your memoir. It reminds me

of Thicker Than Water, which was

amazing.

>> this is that was very artful what you

just did there. That was super.

Kintsugi Kintsugi Woo. Um

but it does because it reminds me of

what you spoke about spoke about and you

spoke about it you you you you've you've

spoken about your experience recently

learning more about your family

>> Yeah.

and learning

um and you wrote beautifully about it

about um

in an attempt to kind of find your roots

your your family kind of

informed you like, "Hey, the way um

maybe you you this family um was came to

came to be was a little different.

You've been lied to for four decades.

>> And that you were born with artificial

insemination and that but from a donor

from a sperm donor and you spoke so

beautifully about it and honestly about

it. And I guess my question to you is

now with some time you've kind of

the book's out, you've spoken about it.

How do you like to talk about it now? I

really enjoy talking about it because

it's been such a

healing journey for my family. Like

we're in such a better place than we

used to be and we were we kind of had a

picture-perfect-esque

for for a working-class family from the

Bronx. We were like as perfect as it

gets.

Um or so we performed to be. And now

there's like a real genuine closeness

and authenticity and truth between us um

that's so special. I'm I'm just so so

grateful. So I really like talking about

it. There's just My mom said this thing

we were being interviewed I think by

Robin Roberts and

my mom said you know we're just not as

afraid to hurt each other as we used to

be. And that's huge. That's safety in

relationship, that trust that like

things are hard but you'll get through

it. I don't know there's just like so

much allowing now in our family and

grace. So much more truth and grace than

there used to be. It's just such a gift

my parents gave me by

telling me this truth about who I am and

who we are. Yeah, it's so awesome. Well,

from what I know about you is you love

to laugh. I do.

>> You do. I really do.

>> What is making you laugh these days?

What is like a way where you practice

tuning out or enjoying yourself or like

who what do you watch, read? Is it a Is

it You have something. Well, I love

this podcast. Does everybody say that?

No, no, not enough. This podcast is

amazing.

Um

>> Carrie, thank you.

>> The big thing is my kids. Yes.

>> Really, because now they're people. So,

they're I have one that's 20, my bonus

baby's 20, and then an 11, and a 9.

>> Mhm.

And they're like now they have their own

wit. Yeah.

>> And it's sharp. Yeah.

>> that. Like I actually this is So, I want

to be really clear.

I love when my kids get a good burn on

me. Yeah.

>> But it's different. I'm not saying that

I want my kids to be disrespectful. Like

there's a different thing about like

like I see some of these other

households that my kids hang out in

sometimes where there's no discipline or

respect in the house. Like that does not

fly in my home.

>> Mhm. It's really important. But like a

good well-timed comedic burn, it just

makes me love them more. Well, because

maybe teasing is a little bit of a love

language for you.

>> I think so.

>> Because I I share that. Like a a

well-placed

tease that is well-observed

is a sign of intelligence, that your

kids are paying attention to you.

>> They see you.

>> That they know you can take a joke,

which is important.

>> with me. They see me.

>> Yes. They feel comfortable like flexing

their own mental prowess. I just love

that.

>> Yes, and they're trying to figure out

what goes too far, and they're supposed

to practice with you.

>> Yeah. They are. Yeah. So, I love that.

And I love also that it humbles me. You

know, I love that. Like it's they're so

not impressed with me, which I love.

>> Have you guys started watching any stuff

any comedy together? Cuz that is the age

around 8 and 11 where you start being

like oh, we can start sharing comedy

shows.

>> The number one show that we obsess over

as a family, even so we go back and

watch old episodes cuz it doesn't come

on enough, is Amazing Race.

Let's talk about Amazing Race.

>> We It's not talked about enough. love

Amazing Race.

>> on?

>> It's still on. And they're still racing.

They're still Phil. He's still traveling

the world. I I've never met him. I if I

ever meet him, I'm going to pass out.

He's amazing. And so what he's amazing.

He's amazing and he races. Um the thing

I love about watching it with our kids

is so there's all this kind of learning

going on. First of all, we're learning

geography. Right. We're learning

culture. We're learning languages, dance

around the world, food around the world,

music around the world,

uh landmarks in important places. So

there's that. You're also learning like

just travel resilience cuz we're a big

travel family. So they're learning like

sometimes the hotel is closed. Sometimes

you miss the train. Like they're

learning that kind of stuff.

But the biggest thing are these

relational dynamics. Cuz I love when my

son turns to me and he's like he is not

a good husband. Right? Like you see

these teams where you're like, why is he

talking to her like that? Or like two

siblings where you're like, they do not

really get along. Or two sisters where

you're like, I love their relationship.

Like that it's so they're really

learning about what makes a good team,

what partnership looks like, what

respect what it's so so we love him and

we laugh a lot in Amazing Race cuz

inevitably in the first couple of

episodes there's always the people that

are like, they have no business being on

the Amazing

Those people have no And you're like,

they're never going to make it. No, but

they're having a good time and we have a

good time with them.

Okay, do you think when you watch

Amazing Race, do you think you would do

well on it? It was So here's one of the

really sweet things and I I don't talk

about my relationship often I love Nandy

But he

it's the first show we watched together.

Like even when we were dating, we were

watching Amazing Race.

We would crush Amazing. We would. He has

all of the physical prowess There's so

many retired athletes on there. But he

has the athlete thing and he's so smart

and funny and you have the drive. Yes.

You have you'd be like you'd be the one.

>> scrappy. I've got the Bronx. I'd be in

the Bronx. It's me wherever I go.

Um my mother's like, "Why do you make

everything the Bronx?" Whenever I'm

like, "COME ON, BABY!"

SHE'S LIKE, "THIS IS NOT WELL, but do

you watch it and think I would do well?

The only thing I know I would not do

well on

>> is

the running.

>> Oh, the run what? It's a race. What are

we talking about? You have to run. What

do you mean? The There is always an I

mean, I I run okay. Sometimes it's a

foot race. It's two races. Sometimes

it's two teams. You can be so great and

then at the end you just have to run

with your bag to the next thing. That's

not nice.

>> I would kill.

>> You would? Are you a good runner?

>> No, but I would make myself a good

runner.

>> See, this is our difference. I I think I

would struggle with

um the driving. Oh, I could do that

well.

>> Yeah?

>> We would be a good team.

>> Okay. Because I would be like at the end

when they'd be like, "Run to the thing."

I'd be like, "You got this, Carrie."

>> yeah. And I would go. And in the car,

I'd be like, "Go for it." I get nervous

on the highway. I'm one of those people

who like as you approach the moment

where it splits, I'm like, "I DON'T

KNOW. GPS, BE MORE CLEAR." I GET really

mad.

>> I could lock in on the driving. But the

running, I know I would try as fast as I

could. I would try as hard as I could

and I would just get so far behind.

>> We always make the mistake of falling in

love with a team that's like a

father-daughter or a mother-son and they

do so well and they're so smart and

they're so on it and then there's a foot

race and you're like,

>> running. It takes them down.

>> They're not going to win. They're not

going to win.

>> And that is why I don't think it's fair.

There's too much running in that show

about racing. But also anything can like

the thing the great that we're not going

to talk about this forever, but the

thing that's so magical about The

Amazing Race and the other thing that my

kids really are absorbing is anything's

possible. True. The final challenge can

be all mental. And you think you're the

team who's got it, but if you can't

figure out how to make that special

Portuguese sausage the way it and did it

then you're done. And to the point about

teamwork

when people are at their lowest point,

when they're very very stressed, their

real their real personality comes out.

>> It's so true. So when someone is kind

>> Yes. and when they're kind to each other

at their lowest moment, then you know

they're going to be okay.

>> Yes, you we always because we watch old

episodes and we so Google like are they

still together? Do you think they're

married still? Did they ever get

married? We're so we're like super

All right.

I'm going to tell Nani that you said

that. Well I but no, I can't we can't

and like compete with all the Big

Brother people. Remember Battle of the

Network Stars? I do remember that.

>> young for that but there was

>> I do have a memory of that. There was an

amazing moment in TV where all of the

stars in TV had to put on really short

shorts and do like Olympic events and

just do track and field events and be

any it was the most famous people in TV.

>> And they all did it. And they all did I

mean I don't even know if I would

>> I would do it

>> say all but the running.

>> I would do all but the running.

And I wouldn't do very well in any of

the events but I would have I

I'd be a good like mouth. I'd be like

I'd be I'd be able to trash talk. Go oh

yes, that's important.

>> that was important in Battle of the

Network Stars there was a little bit of

like haha I'm going to get you kind of

thing. But the insurance would never let

this happen now.

>> That's true, they wouldn't do it now.

>> No, you'd be The teams we that I'm proud

that my kids don't like cuz I got

nervous they would just be focused on

the winning but there are like

occasionally there are teams who lie

about what to do next. They're like they

figure out a challenge and then they lie

to the next team.

>> I know. And those teams

>> comes back to bite them.

>> That karma.

Karma. Yeah. When they take the thing

they're like don't show them the clue

>> That's right. That's right. And they're

like oh yeah the clues are over there

and over there and they're like see you

in hell. That's right. That's right. See

you in Amazing Race

>> Yeah.

You're the last to arrive.

I'm sorry to inform you.

Okay. Thank you so much for doing this.

This is so fun.

Thank you so much Carrie. It was so fun

talking to you and

I'm always just impressed by your range

and ability to do so many things so

well. Thanks for being an awesome guest

and it's just great talking to you and

and I feel like I want to just plug this

YouTube show The Street That You Grew Up

On

because you have there's great guests

like Michelle Obama and Issa Rae and

Sarah Paulson and it's a great idea this

idea of just figuring out where you grew

up and and digging deeper and it feels

like Carrie's always trying to do that

in her own life and in her characters

and so check that out on YouTube and I

have heard that you can get YouTube

without commercials.

If you pay a little extra.

Which I'm not willing to do.

Um but

if you if you want to do that that's up

to you. So

thank you so much for joining us Carrie.

Thanks so much for listening to Good

Hang and we'll see you soon. Bye.

You've been listening to Good Hang. The

executive producers for this show are

Bill Simmons, Jenna Weiss-Berman and me

Amy Poehler. The show is produced by The

Ringer and Paper Kite. For The Ringer

production by Jack Wilson, Cats Balane,

Kalia McMahon and Alana Zanaris. For

Paper Kite production by Sam Green, Joel

Lovell and Jenna Weiss-Berman. Original

music by Amy Miles. And I had a one who

was a really

good hang.