Judge Judy Sheindlin on Good Hang with Amy Poehler

Hello everyone. Welcome to another

episode of Good Hang. I am star struck

today. Very excited to have our guest,

Judge Judy Shinland, who you can catch

right now on Prime Video's uh new show,

Justice on Trial, which is a terrific

new show where she takes on and and and

breaks down a lot of famous cases. Um,

but we have uh Judy on today and we uh

we're going to talk to her about a lot

of things. We talked to her about um the

importance of family. We talk about

knowing your worth. We talk about how

she feels about liars. And news flash,

she doesn't like them. Second news

flash, she also wears a really cute hat.

Judy is here. She's here in the studio.

And um it's a real good one. Um so I I'm

really glad you're joining us. And as

always, we like to start our episodes by

talking to someone who knows our guest,

who who is a fan of our guest. And we

actually have our first super fan

interview today. We are talking to

Eileene Roman. Eileen is the mom of

Belle Roman, our video producer, who's

here in the studio today. And Eileene is

a huge fan of Judy and her work on Judge

Judy and her other shows. And Eileen is

going to talk to us about why Judy is so

important to so many, why so many people

trust her and why her show was the

number one show for a million years. So,

um, Eileen is calling in. She's a she's

a Boston gal and she, uh, she has the

same name as my mom. So, Eileene, are

you there?

[Music]

Thank you for having me.

>> Oh my god, it's so great to hear that

Boston accent.

>> I try to tone it down, but it's really

not easy.

>> No, I mean, we'll never get rid of it.

Well, and why should we, Eileen?

>> Exactly. I'm proud of it.

>> I think it's really great that we're

talking to somebody who watches Judy

Shinlin and has watched her. Sounds like

as much as I have because I think we're

both super fans.

>> Yeah, I am a super fan.

>> Okay, tell me when you first encountered

our our guest Judy.

>> I mean, in the beginning, in the

beginning, there was nobody like her on

TV and she was just

real.

>> Mhm. And the stories can be the same,

but the outcome was never the same, you

know. And I just loved her nononsense,

straight talking,

hardworking woman. No, that's why I have

so much respect for her because I know

that probably wasn't an easy journey.

>> Now, are you are you were you a working

mom?

>> I chose to be a stay-at-home mom, but I

took that job really seriously and I

gave it 100%. I really did. And that's

what my mindset because I always worked

my whole life since I was 12 years old.

You know, I had Paper Route, working in

a restaurant, everything. I worked at a

Brighams, I worked at Jerry Jingle, I

worked at all kinds of places.

>> I love Brighgams.

>> Yeah, Brighgams.

>> Oh my god. Best ice cream ever. So, you

remind me a little bit of my mom. My mom

was a teacher. And then, you know, back

then if you were pregnant, you had to

quit.

>> They were like, they were like, "So

sorry, you your job is over." And you

were like, "Of course, I'm so sorry. I'm

pregnant." and she had to stop. She she

stopped teaching. She raised us. See,

she was at home for, you know, x amount

of years and then went back to work

after. And you, like a lot of women your

age,

were at home with a baby and looking to

figure out what to watch on daytime TV.

What do you think was so great about

those beginning times when you were

watching Judy as Judge Judy on TV?

>> I learned a lot from her. I learned like

how to stand up for myself. I knew I

learned about the law.

>> Things I didn't realize. Um like funny

things like if you get engaged and you

break off the engagement, you got to

give that ring back,

>> you know.

>> You got to give it back.

>> Got to give it back, you know. And she

and you know, I didn't know that. I

mean, and that's silly, I know, but it

was just things like that. And the other

thing that I learned from her was um I

don't know to be honest. like she just

wanted people to be honest and she can

you know any case she ever had she just

always she could read people I learned I

just learned so much from her. I learned

like you know don't give someone money

if you don't want if you if you think

you're not going to get it back you're

not going to get it back. There's a

chance you won't. So I learned that from

her too like you know she people loaning

money to their friends or you know

relatives you know that didn't always

come back to them and she would teach

them like you got to get it in writing

you know things like that I I learned so

much I learned uh I she just talked to

like young people like young parents a

lot um you know how to raise their

children you know think of education I

just you know things like that is what I

learned

>> I know what you mean. She kind of broke

social protocol all the time and and

reminded us, especially us women, that

we should just say it clearly and

plainly and move on.

>> Taken advantage of like she, you know,

don't be smart. She would always say

like, be smart. Don't, you know, they

didn't keep me here because I'm

beautiful. Like I know all her stuff,

you know.

>> Okay. Me too. Me too. Like, you know,

beauty fades but dumbs forever is a

great Judy.

>> If you eat the steak, you got to buy it.

you know, like things like that, right?

>> Yeah. And you're right, you're tapping

into something that is deeper. There's

something about watching her that felt

calming.

>> She has a rough exterior, but I really

think deep down she's really soft and I

think that showed at the end of the

cases. A lot of times she would say

something really kind or like be careful

or take care of yourself or don't get

taken advantage,

>> you know. And sometimes there were women

there that were taken advantage of and

she would just, you know, tell them to

be bright and smart and you have your

whole life ahead of you. That's how I

judged her. I just I just thought she

was just wonderful.

>> Okay. So, I have the pleasure of having

Judy in the studio today. And and by the

way, and have the pleasure of working

with your wonderful daughter.

>> Thank you. I'm so thrilled. I'm She's

I'm so proud of my daughter. This is a

dream come true for her. Let's talk

about how great she is for a second. She

she's covering her face right now, but

what what tell tell us about why Belle

is so great.

>> Well, Belle, she's hardworking. She's

kind. She has empathy for people. And

she's really enthusiastic about what she

does. She loves what she does. And I'm

It's so great to see your daughters

achieve a dream that they've always

wanted. And she did it on her own. And

I'm really proud of her for that. And I

think my husband and I instilled a

really great work ethic in them. And uh

I really believe that and I think that

helped her journey to where she is right

now.

>> A that's so nice. I want you to know

she's crying in the studio right now.

>> I'm so proud of her, Amy. You have no

idea. And to have her work with you.

>> A

>> it's just amazing. And I'm really

impressed with, you know, you're also

one of my heroes because I see you don't

see you. I love to see women in places

where they guide and help other women

through their work or their personal

life. And I feel like that's what you

do. So, I'm really

>> Thank you very much, Eileen.

>> I really appreciate that. Okay. So, we

we're gonna um ask uh Judy a question

and we're gonna and I need some help and

some thoughts. What do you want me to

ask her today? Well, I think one of the

things reason reasons why I love Judge

Judy so much is that she can really read

people. She can really tell if you're

telling the truth, if some if they're

hiding a secret.

Um, I really feel like she can read

people and and I want to know, did she

always have that instinct in her? Is

that or did that something that

developed like as time went on and she

became um you know she had more cases in

front of her. But I really think that is

her

most one of her most important

attributes is that she can read people

you know she can tell what she can read

people and yeah she can't fool you. You

can't fool Judge Judy.

>> Believe me I know I'm worried. I mean

we're about to do an interview. I mean,

what if she just in the middle of it

goes like, "I don't believe you."

>> No, no, no, no, no. I don't. No, no, no.

She knows. She knows. She knows

everything.

>> Febar, it's going to be hard for me to

not do a Judge Judy impersonation to

Judy Shinland, who, by the way, it's

going to be hard not to call Judy Judge

Judy.

>> You kind of look like her today with

your uh black robe on, you know.

>> Thank you for saying that.

Subconsciously,

I try sometimes to think about sub, you

know, slight subconscious ways as a nod

to my guest and I was like, I'm going to

wear this.

>> You did it.

>> I appreciate

>> it's going to be an honor to have speak

with her.

>> It is an honor.

>> It's an honor.

>> All right. Thank you so much.

>> Thank you so much, Amy. I really

appreciate it. And have a great day and

uh I can't wait to hear this episode.

I'm so excited.

>> Thanks so much.

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I love your style. I like I don't think

people get to see you in your actual

clothes.

You know, people only see you in your in

in when you're working.

>> Well, that's helpful. So, you can walk

around almost anonymously until you

speak.

>> Yeah.

>> It's interesting speaking. By the way,

have you seen Are we on now? Yeah, we're

on. We're

>> Have you seen those baby judge Judy?

>> Yeah. the AI. Like

>> the AI

>> I'm obsessed.

>> Is that frightening?

>> That is so frightening.

>> You know, you are all over Tik Tok in a

way. I mean, everywhere. But your your

sound, your your your clips, your audio

clips are everywhere online.

>> But

is that fair?

>> Good question.

>> No, it's a good question. Is it fair?

Because they can really have you say

anything. They can have you comment

about anything. I mean, I've seen some

very reputable journalists talking about

penile dysfunction and they that were

clearly all AI generated.

>> But I would say the young people are

very aware of AI. They are very sharp to

see it and sense it. Like they know what

is AI and what isn't. Like their eye is

now trained.

>> Well, but you know, you still have an

older population. We we have to be

considered. Well, I know they're going

to get they're going to get the older

population. That's what they're going to

who they're going to trick.

>> You they're going to get the older

population.

>> So, you're right. So, we are doomed. So,

Judge Judy is here.

>> No, clearly not.

>> Judy Shinland is here. We are so happy

to have you here today. And you're

right. What I love about you is exactly

these kind of conversations, which is

deepend conversations right away.

Complex deepend conversations. you have

them in life. I'm lucky enough to have

had a few with you already as um as your

new friend and also in your work. And

what I always appreciate about you is

you

are not afraid to

discuss complicated things and also to

admit things are complicated.

>> Yeah. You when you have to worry about

it a little more when you get old

because you get opinionated. If you

notice that about old people, they get

very I know

>> opinionated. You know, you like to think

as you age, you get to know people and

sort of develop a tolerance,

>> which I did for a period of time. That's

over.

That period of my life is over. I am so

intolerant of anything that interferes

with my everyday happiness.

>> Okay.

>> And I said, what am I going to discuss

with Amy today? Look at Judy already

taking over this interview.

>> So, let's talk about fetching.

>> Okay, good. Let's talk about

>> I love, you know, fetching is a great

thing.

>> Fantastic word, too. Great Yiddish word.

>> Yes. You, you know, you live part in the

city, part in the country. You're a

country mouse and a city mouse. But in

the city, and even in the country,

you're supposed to pick up after your

dog.

>> Don't even get me started.

And it's it's I mean I actually walk my

dog and I watch people and I can sort of

tell when they're when they're

>> pretending to look for to look for a

bag.

>> Oh, I had one but I forgot.

>> Right. Yes.

>> I have a dog outside in the world, but I

don't have a bag.

>> Right.

>> So I I said, "What should be the

punishment for somebody who doesn't pick

up after their dog?"

>> This is a great question. And I came up

with, you know, death is probably a

little too a little too exaggerated.

But let's take this example. Let's say

you've been dating your fiance, your

boyfriend, since high school, and you

save up enough money to have a lovely

wedding and do a photography piece

>> in Central Park with your gown.

>> Oh dear.

And the photographer is there and you're

in your gown that you've saved for for

five years.

>> Yeah.

>> And you sit down on the grass because

you're going to take this wonderful

photograph

with your gowns spread out and somebody

hasn't picked up after their dog.

Now, is the punishment the same? I mean,

the the crime is the same.

>> Yeah. But the effect on the victim is

totally different.

If you're a

>> your honor, if I may.

>> Yes.

>> I think you are if you're in a p if

you're in a central park public if

you're in a public place anywhere in New

York, you can't sit down.

>> The minute you sit down, you you've

given up all rights. Well, so you think

you think that there is joint

culpability?

>> That's that's how

>> maybe maybe

>> because and and why why I like this

thought experiment is you are a

responsible dog owner. So

you care about your I know you love your

doggies

and

I think that it it speaks to the deeper

thing that you talk about all the time

which is what are the consequences of

actions? I love what you say which is

there are reasons for behavior but not

excuses for behavior.

>> That's true.

>> And behavior there's many reasons to

behave a certain way and that behavior

has consequences and I think it speaks

to the larger thing like where are all

the consequences anymore. There's no

consequences for anything anymore. And

this is what older people say and feel.

But it feels that way right now in the

world.

>> Yes. And that has that has serious

implications

that has serious political implications

and it has serious economic

implications. I'll tell you a cute story

about consequences. I don't think I've

told you this story before. I had a

case, one of my, you know, little cases

on television. And it was a a cart, a

shopping cart from the Piggly Wiggly in

Florida. I don't know. You know,

somebody took their groceries. They

filled their trunk with their groceries

and they left the cart. Gust of wind

comes along and the cart goes into the

next car and dents the cart.

>> Okay.

>> The owner of the car sees this scenario

unfolding

and sues the person who left the cart.

>> Ooh,

>> interesting. The defense was it was an

act of God.

I didn't create the wind. I put the cart

down. The cart was stable. A gust of

wind came, blew the cart.

Anyway, I found for the person whose car

was damaged. My reasoning was but for

your negligence and not taking that

extra moment to put the car cart in the

assigned position for carts. You know

where they are.

>> The wind would not have been able to

pick up and hit and damage the car.

Okay. So now we're fast forwarding about

two or three months. I'm in Florida

where I live in the wintertime and

shopping at Publix. Fantastic. I'd love

to see that.

>> And it's a big parking lot. I load my

car up with the groceries that I've

gotten

and I noticed that I parked pretty far

away from the appointed cart patrol.

And I looked around and there were three

women standing in front of the store

looking at me,

>> waiting for you to return.

>> Waiting for me. having seen that

episode, waiting to see what I was going

to do. So, of course, I said I took the

cart and I put it back where you're

supposed to.

>> I assumed you would have returned the

cart no matter what.

>> I probably would have, but it was the

reaction of the women. They said, "All

right, let's see if this gal

>> Yeah.

>> follows what she preaches.

>> Follows what she preaches."

>> And it's a simple thing. And now I never

go shopping unless I park my car right

next to the place where you deposit your

cards.

>> But do you get that? You must get that a

lot where people are turning to you to

see if you're going to um

>> follow the rules.

>> Yes. Yes. Because your your life is a

and and and we people know you as a

person who talks about the importance of

these rules and then as a a person in

everyday life like we are human beings.

We try as best we can to follow the

rules. Do you get that a lot? Do you get

people uh projecting that on you?

>> I don't know whether I do or not, but

and I know this is going to sound a

little hokey to you. Life has been very

good to me.

And

I like to do the right thing. If you do

the right thing most of the time or all

of the time, it doesn't guarantee that

at the end of the day all good things

will happen to you. But it's been my

experience that if you don't do the

right thing eventually,

not immediately, but eventually that's

going to come back. There's so many

things I want to get into because I'm

curious as to where

you know your this this strong feeling

about there being uh a a system to

follow and the importance of law and

order and also how you found yourself

like motivating yourself and your own

path in life started very young I assume

in your own family. What was New York in

the 50s like in Brooklyn? And what was

the what was the feeling in your family

with your siblings and your parents

about what was the way to operate?

>> Always the right thing. My father was a

dentist. My mother ran his dental

office. His dental office was in the

house. So we were all very close. And

there was never a question of trying to

get over on the system. Mhm.

>> Uh it was always

you work, you earn a living, you take

care of your family, you save up, you

go, you go to Grossingers

for a weekend or the Concord. And

>> wait, what was Gross Singers?

>> Grossingers was a resort like the

Concord Hotel.

>> Like um like uh Dirty Dancing.

>> Exactly. But bigger.

>> Okay.

>> But bigger. And that's where Jewish

people went for the weekend. There was

everybody was gluttonous. There was much

too much food. But and you know, you

took dancing lessons like you didn't I

hope that the people who watch your

podcast know what dirty dancing is.

>> I hope they do too. I think they do. I

think they do. I think dirty dancing is

still But what were you like as a young

What was young Judy like? like what was

your what was your

>> I followed I pretty much followed the

rules and when the couple of times that

I didn't and I incurred the

disappointment

wrath of my father who never hit me.

>> Yeah.

>> But I never wanted to disappoint him. Uh

I said you know what it wasn't worth it.

Marvin wasn't worth it.

sneaking away with

>> sneaking away with Marvin wasn't worth

it.

>> It never is.

>> No.

>> Um, but you you you've spoken about your

relationship with your dad. It was a it

was very important one for you. Do you

think it gave you confidence?

>> Of course. I I do think that women find

their confidence from their fathers.

They find loving etc. from their

mothers. I think I know some women who

would argue with that, but the women I

know who feel terrific about themselves

had wonderful encouraging relationships

with their dads.

>> And you did.

>> And I did.

>> And how did he used to encourage you?

What And what what did it look like?

>> What did it look like? I'd look like if

I had a pimple on my forehead. He said,

"Oh my god, that is so gorgeous.

Everyone should have one. not quite as

big as yours, but everyone should have

one. Uh, and he recognized my

limitations. I think my intellectual

limitations. I'm not an academic. Uh,

and believe it or not, Amy, I'm not

intellectually curious.

>> Interesting.

>> I'm not.

If something is, it is.

>> I don't have to know why it is.

>> I know it just is. It makes my life much

less complicated.

>> And and he understood that.

>> Was he like that?

>> No, he was more of an academic and he

filled people's teeth, but he wrote

poetry and he carved things in wooden

soap. He he loved the ballet in the

theater. Uh he he was more of a

Renaissance person.

>> Not me. I I'm a meat and potatoes girl.

But you're so good at at figuring out

>> people.

>> So where did you get your people skills?

>> That I don't know. That I don't know.

That I think is probably is probably

genetic just like music play like just

like Mosart. Mozart or Rembrandt. I

think you have a particular skill. I

think everybody has a particular skill.

Just getting back to little or or

younger Judy, you decide, okay, I have

this part of me that likes that kind of

sees the world this way. I want to be I

want to go to law school. What year did

you graduate law school?

>> I graduated I think in 1964 from law

school. Um I did college in I don't know

five and a half years, went to summers

and got out of law school. And then I

had a job that I hated.

>> Yeah. corporate lawyer.

>> I was I worked for L'Oreal of Paris.

They were hiring two lawyers, a man and

a woman. And the man they put in

corporate the corporate effect and me

they gave a sheet

of drug products that were their L'Oreal

products, suage and all different kinds

of hair tints. And they gave me the job

of calling the drugstores the and

getting orders from them. He was doing

law work.

>> Wow.

>> And I was doing

>> doing sales basically.

>> And I was doing sales secretarial work.

>> So I did what

>> you did then. You got pregnant. That was

the only way to to get out of

>> quit a job. And

>> then I was home for a while with my kids

for a bit

>> and I started watching soap operas.

>> Which one? Now I don't remember but I

said

>> life has to be more than this for me.

>> Mhm.

>> So I was fortunate to go to an event

from a lawyer's event and I met the uh

law student who was a law a man who was

a law student with me and he said I'm

looking for somebody in the family

court. I work corporation council in the

family court. You interested in a job?

And I remember going home and telling my

family, I said, "Mommy's going to work

and who's going to take care of us?" And

I said, "A very nice lady." And they

said, "Who is it?" I said, "I don't know

>> yet, but she'll be a very nice lady.

You're going to be very happy for them."

But, you know, I love that story because

I mean, I think on behalf of working

women everywhere

and women that work in the home, which

is also its own job, that you always

were a example of a woman who got great

self-esteem from their work and who work

we got to see work in real time. I mean,

that is what watching you feels like. It

feels like a very successful woman at

work.

You can. I mean, you have two boys. You

love them. They love you. Um,

>> and I we have this host of a family now

with

>> Yeah. You have a blended family.

>> We have a blended family. And my second

great grandchild who's cute as a bug's

ear.

uh

would I'm sure some would have preferred

that I be home to make them a hot lunch

and send it off to school like everybody

else's parent moms did in those years.

>> Yeah, you were very unique in that way.

>> You know, there weren't a lot of

full-time working moms, but I can tell

you now they are reaping the benefit of

my being a full-time working person.

>> Yeah. And

>> what how did you deal with being one of

a few during that time? Like where did

you where did you uh did you did you

struggle at all with feeling?

>> No, I didn't struggle at all.

>> Yeah.

>> I just felt as if it was right

>> Mhm. for me. And

you know, I think that if you're happy

at home being a full-time homemaker and

parent and they're needed, you know, you

need somebody to take kids on field

trips and to be there for the bake sale

and for be an really active part of the

PTA. That's what makes things go around.

If that's satisfying for you, that's

great. But I always believe that a woman

has to have a way of earning a living.

>> Why?

>> Because if a woman different from a man,

if a woman doesn't have a way of

supporting herself,

she is in a position of being

controlled.

That doesn't happen all the time

and it doesn't always happen in a

fashion that's aggressive,

>> right?

But that's a mentality.

And so in the back of your mind, you

should always have a way of saying,"I

don't like this.

This is not making me happy. This is not

making me fulfilled. I would like to

change, but I can't because I have no I

don't have a plan. I don't have an exit

plan." M

>> and

that's very sad for a woman. A man

always has an exit plan. I mean, he

could live out of most men can live out

of a shoe, you know. Women,

>> you know, they they really can.

>> But I but I think but you were you were

ahead of your time in that thinking.

That was you were I mean you were you

were unique in that way because you were

coming up during a time when that wasn't

always the way women not certainly

weren't encouraged to be that way but

also couldn't find it in themselves.

>> No, they were supposed to be nurses or

teachers.

>> Yes.

>> My first husband thought that that was

the only thing women did. They were

nurses or teachers.

>> Talks about that that her father sat her

down and said, "Do you want to be a

nurse?"

>> Nurse or a teacher.

>> Yeah. And he was he's a love he was a

lovely man and loved her very very much

and believed her to be smart and all of

those things but just assumed like which

one that's your that's that's your

choice

>> right?

>> Yeah. And so what so did you get any

push back at the time from other people

like were you did you feel supported

when you were making these kind of

choices in your life like with

>> I felt always supported.

>> Yeah.

>> I felt always supported.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Um,

>> and then you find yourself in family

court and that is kind of and and you've

spoken about this, but it's so

interesting like I love what how you

speak about this which is basically your

life keeps unfolding

and and you we don't get to know you

Judy until you're in your 50s for late

40s maybe.

>> I started my program when I was 52.

>> Yeah.

And you speak ve very often and really

eloquently about the idea that you kind

of never know what is around the corner

and you never know like how your life is

going to unfold and you just take this

dramatic turn in your life from being in

family court to being on TV. When you

were first on TV, did you have to kind

of learn how to be yourself quote

unquote on TV?

>> It was easy.

>> No, it was easy.

>> Yeah.

because I didn't have to make up a

person that's the person, right?

>> And if that's the person that they

>> said we want this person on TV, why

would I want to modify that or change

it?

>> And so it was easy for me.

>> But being yourself isn't always it's

easy for you, but it isn't always easy

for people like

>> that's unfortunate for them. It was very

easy for me

and and you know the public can tell

Amy.

>> Yeah. public can tell when you're a

phony.

>> Public can tell

uh whether you believe what you're

talking about. You know, I often say and

you know, I say if you tell the truth,

you don't have to have a good memory. I

stole that from somebody, but whoever I

stole it from is dead. So, so it's now

become it's now become mine.

>> Uh so, I find if you tell the truth, it

makes your life so much easier. Uh,

>> yeah. How can you tell when someone's

lying?

>> What are

>> Well, if it first of all, if it doesn't

make sense, it's usually not true.

>> If the story doesn't make sense to you,

when you're a relatively normal human

being, it's usually not true. But what I

love so much about watching you work is

in your show and shows, you have a, you

know, you're not, you can have a

tolerance for people's

uh unfortunate choices and mistakes and

learning learning moments, but you have

such a low tolerance for being lied to.

Like it's like if someone lies to you,

they're done. Well, you can only lie to

me once and then everything else you say

becomes suspect.

>> Exactly.

>> Right. Did you have insurance on the

car? Yes. Can I see the card? The dog

ate it.

My phone fell in the toilet. I

>> And I've seen you do something which I

find very um satisfying to watch and

calming to watch is where you'll give

them another chance. In that moment, I

see sometimes you say, "I'm going to ask

you again." like you just say maybe you

just lied out of quick you know

sometimes reflex people are just so

stressed

and

>> you're being kind you're a much kinder

person than I am actually you are you

are I know you are

>> but you know what the reason why I say

it Judy is because I don't like to be

stressed when I watch shows I don't like

to watch people argue and I don't like

to watch people um be um made fun of

like it's not my thing I and I loved

watching your shows. So, I didn't feel

like you were there to humiliate or to

let people humiliate each other. There

was like a controlled environment that

you were in charge of and you were

paying attention and there were times

where I felt like there were gestures of

grace where you would say, "I'm going to

let you answer that again."

>> One more time. That's nice of you. I'm

glad I'm Listen, I'm glad you're a fan.

>> Do you disagree?

>> I know. Uh, do I disagree? No. I think

that sometimes people do uh their

initial gut reaction is to be

self-protective.

>> Yes. People lie because they're nervous.

>> They're nerving

a position.

>> Yes.

>> And

then you know if I catch you by the eye,

I'm going to say, you know what? You

have parents.

You think that parents want to hear

that? They're going to watch and they're

going to tell their friends to watch

this episode.

>> Yeah.

>> They're going, "You're having friends

who will watch." You sure you want to go

there?

>> Yeah.

>> Cuz I'm going I have the capacity when

I'm released. I have the capacity to

make you look like an idiot. You want me

to do that? It's It'll be my pleasure.

I'm good at it. That's what they pay me

for. I would much rather you tell me the

truth.

>> But if you don't

>> Yes.

>> I can I can handle it. You can handle

it. I mean you can handle it. I mean it

is I mean I imagine being somebody in

your life who is try like do you find

that

>> what what part of you in your personal

life is softer than the what we see on

TV?

>> Everything.

So what part of you is the softy part

that people don't you know that people

don't get to see because

>> with my dog

>> when my dog snuzzles up next to me

>> if I'm not feeling well and you know

they can sense that and

>> she usually sleeps on the foot of the

bed if she knows that I'm not feeling

well she comes over and checks on me at

night

>> and I love to smell her.

She smells so delicious and

nothing but giving, you know. I mean, if

you're an animal lover, then you know

>> Yeah.

>> that it's pure pure

>> love.

>> Yeah.

>> That they have for you

>> that they're a good dog.

>> Yeah.

>> Uh so I'm soft with her.

>> I find you to be very warm.

>> I like to think so.

>> So would what would people describe as

the warm parts of you that people don't

get to see?

Sometimes you meet a person who has sort

of a kindred spirit.

As you get as you age, you sort of peel

that back and you sort of eliminate

people from your life. But every once in

a while, you meet somebody new. And

that's what happened when we met. I, you

know, we don't see each other all the

time, but I know we have a a fondness

for each other.

>> Yes. And that's a nice and that's a

lovely thing. It's something that

becomes more lovely when you're older

because you know you used to have lots

of people to meet

>> and I came downtown today from

Greenwich, Connecticut where I live.

>> You don't do a lot of these Jud

>> and I did this. I only did one and

that's this one.

>> So, and don't call.

>> Yeah. Nobody else. Judy's not on some

tour right now. Don't think she's going

to do a bunch of these. She's not coming

out.

>> I just came I really just came to see

you for an hour.

>> Okay, let's talk about us meeting

because I feel like I kind of manifested

it in my own way and kind of forced us

to be friends. So, thank you for going

along with it. But it's true. I mean, I

remember meeting for the very first

time. Uh we were on a talk show

together. I think it was Kelly Ripa and

um and whoever was hosting with her at

the time, I don't remember. And then I

brought in my book that I loved your

books. I asked you to sign them. We had

a quick talk. I thought that's it.

That's I won't bother Judy anymore with

that. Then I heard that you were going

to be given the like a lifetime

achievement award for the daytime Emmys.

I called up your people and said, "Can I

give it to Judy if she doesn't have

someone giving it to her yet?" and you

very nicely said yes. It was my pleasure

to write that speech. It was the easiest

thing I had written. So then I got to

give you the speech. We got to hang out.

I had a very exciting moment where you

handed me something on stage.

Judy came up and gave me something in

the palm of her hand and I was like and

it was this. You gave me this necklace

which I wear all the time. It's very

good. It's a very good luck charm for

me. And then um we started to create a

friendship together. We start said like

let's have lunch and let's actually try

to be friends.

>> And I what I love about it number one is

that I felt like it was I mean I am the

most you were by far my most I've been

the most nervous and most starruck to

interview you of ever everyone that I've

interviewed. You are by far the most

famous person that I've had in my mind

on the show. And when you said yes, I

was we jumped for joy because I know you

don't do things you don't want to do.

Let's just put it that way.

>> Not anymore. I don't know if you ever

have, Judy. I don't know if you've ever

really

>> Well, have you ever done a satellite

media tour?

>> Okay, you're right. You're right. You've

had to do a few things. Yeah, but you

just It's what I what what calms me

about you is I know you're not you're

going to have no problem saying no to

things you don't want to do. And so it

really meant a lot that you came and it

means a lot that you're and and it also

you you represent what I think is like

your your your ethos which is it's kind

of like never too late to figure out

what you want to do and it's never too

late to make new friends. How are

friendships important to you? How do

they sustain you?

>> They add

a texture.

You know, we have a big family

>> and I could be busy with the big family

all the time

>> and they're all they're different. the

kids and the mates and grandchildren,

they all have different quirky. But

bringing in a new friend into your life,

especially someone younger,

>> you are

is a whole new perspective,

>> gives you a a different texture for

things.

>> But for coming in to do this today, I

can't even tell you where I would be or

what I would be doing. But this was very

good for me. I didn't know it when I

said, you know, I had heard you say

someplace that you would like to have me

as a guest. And I was so touched by the

fact that you took time and actually

made a call

to present me with something that is is

very a very sweet moment for me with the

Emmys. I said, "This is a person who's

really a mench." And she's not a phony.

When some people tell me about, you

know, I watched your show, I grew up

with you. I sat with my grandma. Could

you please sign a picture? I want to put

it in her casket because she loved you.

All

All true. I just got one from Germany, a

letter from Germany that this man's best

friend passed away

and he was cremated and he wants to be

able to put a note from me with his

friend's ashes. Could I please say

something personal to Fred that he

appreciate not going to know if you

write that or not?

>> You can get somebody else to write that.

But I knew that

you had a different kind of

understanding of watching

the courtroom and watching me in the

courtroom. So, I knew you got it. And

you're so terribly talented and it's

just such a shame your plate is so full

because otherwise there are so many

things that we could do together.

>> I still want to work together, Judy. It

would be fantastic to work together with

you. I mean, we're both used to being

running the show, right? We both are

like we are like we like to be

>> No, you're a writer. You're the writer.

You see, I don't have that talent.

>> Well, I would argue that you do have

that talent. You're doing it in

>> I don't know. Let me

hold on because you're writing in real

time on that show. You are you that is

you are that is there you do not have

lines on that show. No, but

>> and you've written how many books you're

writing?

>> Yeah.

>> When are you gonna call yourself a

writer?

>> That's

there's a creativity that you have

that you have to know your limitations

that I don't have. So, if I were to say

to you, Amy, what I want to do for my

next adventure that I would like you to

play with me at doing,

I want to steal baby judge Judy back

from AI.

>> We're all Now, now I know why we started

talking about it in the beginning, and

now I get it. I get it now.

>> And I want to take

>> We need to sue AI,

>> baby. I want to take baby judge thing

and said I haven't shut him down. I

haven't even I said I want to get more

people involved with this character

>> and then

I want to take this character.

>> Yeah.

>> And create

a South Parky.

>> Yeah. so that I can Judy Ketch through

the baby. Speaking through baby judge

Judy would be a whole lot of fun, but

you need

>> the right writer.

>> That's right.

>> So, and I know

>> Judy's still pitching me on this. I'm

still pitching her.

>> I love it. I love it.

>> I'm still pitching.

>> I love it. I love it because first of

all, I'm very flattered. And two,

what you what what I think I hear you

saying is that and what I love about all

the stuff that you do is you keep trying

to figure out like in what way what is

my next adventure? I mean, you're always

looking for that. You're always looking

for like

>> and you have to take your next adventure

with your station in life. Now, my next

adventure is not being a centerfold. I

know that you have

>> Okay, but this is perfect. Let's talk

about your bod,

>> Judy.

>> Just it's not as wonderful as I've

>> seen you in a t-shirt. You look

incredible.

>> That was 10 years ago.

>> Nope. Just a few years ago.

>> Well, few

>> life gets life catches up with you.

>> Yes.

>> Life catches up with you. So what if

you're smart?

I was at a I was at a Forbes conference

years ago talking about women and I want

and they said if you had one piece of

advice to give a woman

you know and these were all business

women professional women what would that

one piece of advice be and I thought for

a moment and I said wear sleeveless as

long as you can

that's my best advice and then you have

to know when to stop wearing sleeveless

>> of course you got it and but You you

weight train. You

>> I did, but I can't wear sleeveless. I

don't care how much you weight train.

Okay. Life catches up with you. That's

why animation is so perfect

>> because you can still have a voice.

>> That's right.

>> You still have a voice. You still can

create the message. You're creating it

through a fun character

and you can show up sleeveless. But you

are such a good but but to me you're an

incredible example of someone in their

80s who are you know there is I mean

when when I was growing up being in your

80s was you know

>> crypt like

>> yeah you barely knew anyone in their 80s

it was a miracle to live in to your

>> Now we have people running the country

who are in their 80s

>> and it's like and I mean I was lucky

enough to be invited to your 80th

birthday which was western casual an

incredible dance party. You love to

dance. You and Jerry were on the dance

floor. Jerry's also

>> We were on the dance floor.

>> We were on the dance floor. Thank you

for remembering.

Jerry's also keeping it tight. Jerry's

also keeping it really tight.

>> Yeah, I guess

>> you guys are in great and I don't even

just mean I mean it's just a an energy

for life basically. And

um I I I feel like I know people like

myself are looking ahead to women in

their 60s, 70s, and 80s to see like how

are you doing? Because you're right,

life does catch up with you. But you

don't need to decide to get caught up in

what is like the crazy amount of

pressure and agism in this in this, you

know, country and how we want old older

people to kind of stop talking and

disappear and retire and we want them to

all kind of like get quiet and lie down

and go away. I mean, you're certainly

not doing that.

>> The trick is as you get older, you have

to stay relevant. If you are

interesting,

>> Mhm.

>> people will want to gravitate to you.

All old people will want to gravitate to

you. And you have to be able to say to

old people who want to gravitate to you,

you can't pull me down. You want to get

out there and chaa with me, great, but

I'm not sitting home with you and

watching the filter in the pool. If all

else fails, I can always get a job with

a law firm.

>> Mhm.

>> Cuz I had a fall back. You weren't

stuck.

>> Yeah. I mean, that's what you felt.

That's what it felt like watching your

show is you didn't have a vibe of like

I I don't know else how I don't know how

else to say it. It wasn't a thirsty vibe

as the kids say. It was like I'm going

to do the job I usually do. I'm going to

try to do it over here. If you like it,

great. If you don't like it, find my

aim.

>> Don't watch.

>> And that is also an incredible

negotiation technique. And look, I don't

want to talk to you about, we all know

how incredibly successful your show was

and how incredibly successful you were

on it. But I think that the way you talk

about negotiation and the way you

negotiated is interesting, especially

for women.

>> You have to know your worth.

You have to know your worth.

>> If

and women often have a problem

fully appreciating their worth.

Uh,

I didn't at the beginning, but I quickly

I was a fast read on this one,

>> and I quickly understood

that

I could go anywhere.

But as hard as you try, you haven't been

able to find anybody to do this. And

you've put on a lot of people.

>> Yeah. You've tried a lot of alternatives

that haven't been as successful. So, you

want to continue making what you make.

I'm going to teach you how to be a

partner rather than an employer.

>> Good language. I'm going to teach you

how to be a partner.

>> And can you tell everyone how you would

negotiate? Well, every few years I would

sit down with the president of our

company at the grill on the alley

and we all knew what was we were there

to talk about renewal and I would have

an envelope and in the envelope would be

two or three conditions, three years or

four years and this is my salary and but

you know nothing lengthy and I would

take out the envelope and pass it over

to whoever the president was who kept

getting changed. I was still the same

person

that I I recognized that the face at the

other side changed but this face was the

same.

>> And I would slip in the envelope and I

would say don't open it until you get

home. Let's have dinner first

>> and then tomorrow you'll tell me yay

your name

one. And the final year the president of

the then company was adorable. I won't

name him. And when I took out my

envelope, he said, "Judy, I have an

envelope."

And he when I handed him he hand went to

hand me mine. I said, "I'm not taking

your envelope

>> because if I take your envelope, it's a

negotiation."

And this isn't a negotiation.

>> Judy,

>> and he laughed. He He actually laughed.

I said, "But it was true. If I took it

and looked at it and opened it, of

course, because he well and he did say,

"Maybe it's more than what's in yours."

I said, "Then I'm a loser.

>> Then I'm a loser." But this is will

satisfy me.

>> Yes.

>> This will satisfy me. They put it away.

We had a great dinner and we signed on

for another few years.

>> Oh, it's so baller. And also, I mean, it

it it goes to exactly what you talk

about that like there when you're trying

to figure out how to negotiate, it's

it's like kind of like less is more.

Figure out your worth. state it and then

the ball is in someone else's court.

>> Yes. But you have to make yourself

indispensable.

>> Yeah.

>> That's the key. And you don't have to be

a television personality to make

yourself indispensable. I know doctors

who close their practices five years

early because their assistant or their

secretary who runs the office says, "You

know what? I'm retiring."

And they say, "Well, you can't retire.

I'm not ready to retire. I can't run

this place without you." Well, do you

want me to stay? you have I don't want

to work on Friday. I want 3 weeks

vacation in the summer and this is my

new salary. Well, you've made yourself

indispensable.

>> Doesn't matter what you are. So,

>> and you have to be aware of that how you

fit in. Can somebody else that they find

do what you do

>> and you can also, you know, you can't

have unreasonable expectations. I mean,

you can't want to own the company,

>> right?

>> Well, you could want to own the company,

but who would want to own that company?

Then

>> have you bought the company?

>> Who would want? Um, I don't consider

myself an artist, so it's easy for me to

get down and dirty.

>> Yeah.

>> Interesting.

>> And I don't have an agent and I don't

have a manager.

>> I mean, incredible. Incredible. I mean,

the fact that you negotiated yourself in

in person.

>> Well, that's easy. It's very It's much

harder to for the company who needs you

to turn you down.

>> Yeah. in person than it is to turn down

some intermediary that is dealing for 50

people

>> and he said he's and also when it

becomes less urgent for you.

>> Well, that's what it felt like always.

Again, that's why it was interesting to

watch your show is it felt it did not

feel like honestly that you even had

dreams about being on television.

>> No, I didn't.

>> Yeah. So watching it was and and and and

I wanted to ask you a question. So we do

this thing um where we we ask somebody

who is a friend of um our guest who uh

knows our guest or is a fan of our

guest. We ask them a question that that

they should give to me to ask you. First

of all, I tried to get your buddy Sam

Jackson. He's not a veil. He's on a

boat. But

>> Oh, it's summertime. Sam would be on a

boat.

>> I don't know a lot of people know that

you and Sam Samuel L. Jackson are great

friends.

>> We are great friends.

>> Like really good friends. Can you tell

me how you guys met? And

>> we met through Sam's agent, Tony Howard.

>> Uhhuh.

>> And

the one thing Sam hates more than

anything in the world is

>> Yeah.

>> He both hate that.

>> And he he's right out front

and everybody knows that. And I think

that that's what made us friends. Uh we

get each other. He has a wonderful wife,

the Tanya, wonderful and talented wife.

And he does spend the summer on boats.

>> Yeah, he's on a boat. So the question I

got today was, so Belle, one of our um

video producers here, Belle, how old are

you?

>> I'm 32.

>> 32. 32. So Bel,

>> I have food in my refrigerator older

than you are.

So Belle um is a big fan of you like

everyone here and also Belle's mother

Eileene who is is also the same name as

my mom share she Eileen has watched you

since the beginning and she felt very um

I guess the way she would say is seen

heard and represented

and we talked about how your show gave

both of us this like sense of like

almost like a a grounding in a very like

watery world. You know, you know, you

watch it and you're like two people or

two two sides come, there's some kind of

judgment.

There's might be some way out of this

mess of this is kind of how it always

felt like it's not going to be perfect,

but we're going to try the best we can

to figure it out in real time. We're

going to ask people to tell the truth

and there's going to be somebody in

charge that isn't going to let things

go.

>> Somebody in charge who's a woman, which

is probably what

>> That's right.

>> Eileen.

>> Eileen. some but probably

I don't know your mom

but I think that a lot of women I know

from what people tell me uh a lot of

women who felt that there weren't

options for them because they didn't had

not seen situations where women were in

control

>> not only of their own lives but a lot of

other people's lives as Well,

that it made them feel good

and

perhaps gave him a little bit of a jolt.

Uh, you don't have to stay in that

terrible situation. You can,

but you can

push yourself. You can do better. Don't

bring that other bum home from the bar

and give him your credit card and let

him drain your bank account and look at

him. There's nothing there, you know.

Look, I'd see I would watch some

wonderful women

>> Mhm. wonderful,

smart, professional working women. And

I'd look at this schlub

>> that they gave their car to and a their

own credit card that they paid for.

>> And I would look at them and I would

say, "You must have something that I'm

not seeing.

It made them feel good." Yes. because

somebody had taken advantage of them or

they felt they they felt that they had

no power that they

they were just going through the motions

of life

>> and you were breaking social protocol.

You were saying it out loud in real

time.

>> I was saying it out loud. You get flack.

You know, when you have an opinion, and

I have very strong opinions about

everything,

you get flack.

>> Yeah.

>> I don't care. And I I think we're almost

at the end, but I'm going to tell you. I

love the Judy.

>> I'm going to tell you one story. You

said, you know, sometimes some people

like and some people don't like. And

when did when did you know that you were

when did you know that you were an

entertainer?

>> Yeah.

>> Jerry and I were sitting in a bagel

restaurant called Tal Bagel on First

Avenue when we were living in the city

and we would go there for coffee in the

morning and there were two women sitting

not too far away. you know, you got your

bagel and you came down, you sat down at

the table and we overheard them and they

were talking about the show and one of

them said, "Oh my god, I love her. I

cannot wait for 4:00. I love her." And

the other one said, "I can't stand her.

She is such a She is such a

meanspirited

person."

And I looked at Jerry and I said to him,

you know, I know I'm an entertainer. I

don't care what they think as long as

they watch.

>> Yeah.

>> One hates you. And when you look at the

people who, you know, you look as I

sometimes do at IMBD or whatever it is,

you see how your show is rated, right?

>> You have five and it's this big yellow

line and then you have a one. People who

love you all the way to five. People who

hate you all the way to one. And then

there's two, three, four in the middle.

I have very few two, three, four in the

middle. Right.

>> I get fives and ones.

>> That's it. You love her or you hate her.

As long as you watch.

>> And they do. Julie,

>> I don't. They watch. You can throw a

shoe at the television. I don't care. As

long as your Neielson number then when I

was connected to Neil is there. Yeah.

Now I ask your question. Well, it this

question is actually bas it it it it

ties into what you're saying because you

know Eileen was asking like you have a

strong sense of intuition about yourself

and other people and you know her

question was was it learned or was it

natural and I feel like we kind of

talked about it but what it speaks to is

this bigger idea of like you stay very

you track yourself

really well. You know what you want. You

have a strong sense of self. I do. Okay.

>> I do. Came from father.

>> It came from dad.

>> Came from dad.

>> And how do you cultivate it? How do you

keep cultivating it in yourself? And how

do you and how do you help other people

find it? Or do you

>> Everything is by example, Amy. I don't

think that you can. If somebody is sick,

you can't tell them feel better. I want

you to feel better.

>> Yeah.

>> I I want you to You're not happy. Be

happy. Rahr. Get happy. You can't do

that for someone else. All you can do is

set the table.

>> Is there anything you're not as certain

about as you get older?

>> I mean, I don't know the answer to that

question, but I

I think younger people, and it may be

good, bear more naval gazers than I am.

I don't I don't sit there and say, "Oh

my god, are you in or out or left or

right?" But I don't.

>> Yeah.

>> I'm a what is what is.

>> Okay.

>> Girl, because

I probably could benefit from therapy.

>> Never been.

>> Never been. And people people

will say, "Well, you you for sure could

benefit from therapy." say, "Well,

that's true, but I really don't want to

know."

>> Mhm. I understand.

>> I I'm not that interested in why I feel

the way I feel and why this hurts me and

why this makes me happy or why this

makes me sad.

>> I just want to say this makes me sad

>> and if I can excise it

>> from my life. So the answer is I'm not

that introspective. And as I said when I

started when I said when I started this

>> this chat with you.

>> I'm really not an academic

and I'm not inquisitive. I'm not

intellectually inquisitive.

>> If I like the pizza, I like the pizza.

If I don't, I don't. I don't want to

know what you put in your pizza so that

it would make it a better pizza. I don't

care. I'll go from Joe's pizza to

Anony's pizza where I know I like it and

not try to change Joe. And the very last

question, what is making you laugh when

you I know you love to laugh. You're a

big laugher.

In these times, in these days, like

where do you go to let off steam? What

is it? Old stuff? Is it new stuff? What

do you do you listen to stuff? What what

what where do you go to to laugh?

>> I have very funny children.

>> They all That's great. Many of them have

over-the-top funny

sense of the world, funny sense of

themselves, and we see each other often.

I keep the family close to wherever I

am.

>> And they're all wonderful and

accomplished. They make me laugh. I

don't find anything really.

>> The people that made me laugh were old

school people. Who were they? Don

Rickles made me laugh.

>> Love Don Rickles.

>> Well, there were moments when Henny

Youngman made me laugh.

Take my wife, please.

>> Uh,

>> did um do you did you did your kids do

they like tease and wrote like

>> No, they view the world it they view the

world with a light eye

>> and they're fun and funny. Anyway, we we

it's been fabulous. Okay, let Judy's

done. Judy's done. I love it. You're

right. I've taken too much of your time.

Judy, thank you for doing this. It means

so much. I really appreciate you being

here. Love you.

>> Thank you. Love you.

>> Wow, that was really incredible. It was

really exciting to have Judy in the

studio and um and I really hope that you

enjoyed it as much as I did. And you

know, for this polar plunge, as we wrap

up this episode, I just want to remind

everybody to return their grocery carts

into at the very least an empty space

and if not the designated area. I know

it's a thing, right? Like you you get

all your groceries in your car and you

think, "I'm done." And the idea of going

back out and doing that, but it does

make a difference.

And I would implore you to try to even

grab one that isn't yours. And then, you

know, an angel gets its wings like

you're you're going to if you believe in

karma, you're I don't know. That's a

good thing to do. So, just do it. Just

just do it. And and picture just like

Judy did, you know, all these women

staring at you and and judging you.

Picture people judging you. That can

really motivate you to do good things.

Bye.

You've been listening to Good Hang. The

executive producers for this show are

Bill Simmons, Jenna Weiss Berman, and

me, Amy Polar. The show is produced by

The Ringer and Paperkite. For The

Ringer, production by Jack Wilson, Cat

Spalain, Kaia McMullen, and Aia Xenerys.

For Paperkite, production by Sam Green,

Joel Levelvel, and Jenna Weiss Berman.

Original music by Amy Miles.

really good. Hey