Hayley Williams on Good Hang with Amy Poehler

Hello everyone and welcome to another

episode of Good Hang. This is such a

good one. You know, this is a guest who

I wanted on since I started this podcast

and I am such a fan. It is Haley

Williams. Um, a beautiful artist, an

incredible singer, songwriter. You might

know her from the band Paramore, but

she's out with her third solo album, Ego

Death at the Bachelorette Party. And um

she's just so special and we had such a

good time. And um we're going to talk

about a lot of stuff today. We're going

to talk about um working with David

Burn. We're going to talk about um you

know, Wayne's World and how important of

a movie it is. Um we're going to talk

about being short, pros and cons. and

we're gonna warm up and warm down

because that's what a person does when

they take care of their voice. But most

importantly, we're going to start this

podcast like we always do. We're going

to talk to someone who knows Haley

Williams and knows her well. And today

we have Doug Pek. Now, Doug Pek is a

musical director, uh, a teacher, voice

teacher, if you will. He's also a

trained musician and pianist, and he

works with Haley to get her voice just

right. and I know him in a very special

way, too. So, let's find out what that

is. And let's get Doug on the line. Hi,

Doug.

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[music]

>> Hi, friend.

>> Hi, my queen. It's so good to see you.

>> Oh my gosh, I'm so excited to talk to

you. Thank you so much for doing this. I

mean, Doug, we we could do it an entire

episode on your life, your talent. How

did we meet?

>> We met through our buddies Kathern Han

and Rashidita Jones. Both of their

episodes were so good. [laughter] Um,

where two years ago at the Christmas

season, we thought it would be fun to do

some Christmas music together at

Rashidita's house. and you walked in,

you're like, "Hi." And we instantly fell

into a beautiful rapport. You um so

beautifully sang all the alto parts of

all the Christmas carols we sang. And

I'll never forget you saying it feels

like the song is on some distant shore

and we're the boat that's pulling away

from it.

>> Altos, give it up for Altos. Pour one

out for Altos. Well, I realized we, you

know, we we were like, we want to put

together a choir because we were

[clears throat] feeling like we wanted

to do something communal and for the

community. And then Katherine said, "I'm

working with this incredible person

named Doug." And then I realized much

later it was like saying,

"I know this woman named Julia Child.

She's going to come and teach us how to

make a chicken." Like we had the best of

the best. [laughter] We were so lucky.

>> Well, thanks Katherine for introducing

us. Speaking of Julia Child, Amy, let's

get your head voice warmed up.

>> Okay, Julia Child. Okay, so Doug, what

should I do? Thank you. Can you give us

a good old acting class?

>> Very good. And then show us a little

siren from low in your range to high in

your range. Back to low in your range.

>> Good. Really good. Can you roll your

shoulders while you do that and keep

yourself nice and cozy? Comfy.

>> Oh my god, my shoulders. God, I forget I

have

>> I'm rubbing them over the Zoom so they

can relax. Oh, Doug is a good shoulder

rubber. And not in a creepy way.

>> No, no,

>> not in a creepy way.

>> Never. Never.

>> Roll your shoulders out.

[cheering]

[groaning]

>> Really good.

>> Why people are laughing? [laughter]

>> She's using her voice. Let's do actually

one of Haley's favorite warm-ups. Can

you do Hey, hey, hey.

>> Doug has a piano right under. I can't

believe you have a piano. [laughter]

Doug has a piano right there. Amazing.

This is the first on Good Hang. Someone

has a piano right below frame. Okay.

[laughter] So, and this is one of his.

Okay. Go ahead. Can you give it to me

again Doug?

>> Hey, hey, hey, hey, hey.

>> Great job, Amy. How does that feel?

>> That is Haley's favorite warm-up.

>> It's one of them. We have a whole list

of things, but

>> I've seen photos of you guys together

and the way that you use breath. I mean,

I want to talk to her a lot about that

today. Her voice is one of my favorites.

I think when we met, I when I found out

you guys worked together, I kind of

freaked out.

>> Imagine how I felt working with her for

the first time. It's like, you're going

to go do a session with Haley Williams.

I was like, great. I bet I'm going to

learn as much as she is.

>> What was that? What was that first

session like?

>> It was total love at first sight. Haley

is, you know, especially when someone's

as incredible as she is, when they're

such an open student and a student of

life and just everything I've ever said

to her, I feel like she just sponges it

in and she remembers something I said 3

years ago and we'll make a great sound

and she'll be like, "Oh, that reminds me

of we're warming up for the Arrows tour

and I I like how that one sounded. Let's

work on that again." And she's always

willing to work on what she's great at

as well as what doesn't come as easily

to her. And she's such a Capricorn.

She's always ready to climb that next

mountain. And this new album of hers is

so incredible.

>> So good.

>> I know. I have so many. Now, did you

hear any of it when it was being like,

did you She come in and say, "I'm

working on this song. I want to practice

this song with you."

>> Yes. And then she popped down on the

couch and was like, "Yeah, I got 18 new

songs. You want to hear them?" It's

like, "Yeah, I do." And then she's like,

"Some of these are really low. We should

probably work on that." I was like, "I

cannot wait, Haley. Let's go."

>> Oh, wow. So, that's interesting to me.

Like a singer knows, okay, I'm going to

have to perform these and I'm going to

have to work on figuring out how to get

my voice to sing these all the time.

>> That's right. And sometimes when they

record, they've, you know, they've never

done it live all the way through. And

our sessions are the first amazing time.

I'm so lucky where you're like, "Okay,

start at the beginning and sing it

through and pick which backgrounds you

want to do and which adlibs you want to

do." And sometimes even great people

like Haley are like, "Whoa, this doesn't

feel at all like it felt on the record.

let's find a way to do it live. And

that's just such a joy.

>> I always think about that and I want to

ask her and I think she was very has

spoke about it in a really funny way

which is you know you write a song in

your 20s that you then have to sing 10

years later and it's a note that's like

you know all I wanted you [screaming]

or whatever and it's like damn you got

to hit that. I bet she regrets it. We've

worked hard on that. I'm really proud of

her because that was one that wasn't

always in the Paramore performances and

she was determined to get it back in the

set.

>> Dang.

>> And we worked totally 360 on it with

both the vocals and her confidence.

>> How do you work on that? How do you work

and what is that note by the way, Doug?

Let's hear that on the piano. What's

that note that she's singing, B flats,

and an E in that piece? Top of her range

in a really chesty belt. And

>> chesty belt. Oh, there's so much chest

voice in it and it's from the soul and

she gets her whole body behind it. And

we worked on, you know, having her look

up to her friends in the first balcony

and have her whole throat be open while

she makes those sounds, knowing in her

eyes that she's going to crush it when

she takes the breath to do it and then

watching the reward and watching the

audience reaction. It's just so soul

satisfying. She also does a lot of vocal

cool downs. So after the show, we warm

her voice back down and help it relax,

which helps her with the next night and

helps her take a second to say, "Oh

yeah, I did do that really well tonight

and I did use the proper technique to

sing that." Um, and also we've had fun

days where she's like, "Yeah, I just

wanted to scream, so I screamed that

one." And we help help me

>> help help me like get my voice

[clears throat] back. Yeah, [laughter]

>> she is after all a rockstar, so that's

all I do.

>> Well, I mean, it's it's I want to ask

her about it. Just the idea that you

have to keep your voice. I mean, I just

that, you know, when you lose your

voice, you lose the show. The show is

over. It's really an intense stress.

What do you do? How do you help people

not lose their voice?

>> We have straws. We have straws in water.

We do jump.

>> Wait, what are straws do?

>> You take a straw, which gets proper um

closure and back pressure at your vocal

fold. Do you have one?

>> Somebody get me a straw.

>> Somebody get Amy pull her a straw.

>> Somebody get me a straw. Watch this. I

need a straw. [laughter]

There's no straw in here. I mean, we're

never going to find a straw. Okay, so

you got a straw.

>> We're going to pretend we have a straw.

Okay, we're going to do a little

problem.

>> Okay. Oh my god, there's a straw flying

in. Jenna has a straw. Incredible. Is it

Thank you, Jenna. Is it a metal straw?

Is a metal straw. Okay,

>> it could be fine. Doesn't matter what

it's made of

>> because uh because all you young people

want the straws to be metal now, so

can't find a paper one.

>> And do you have a little liquid in that

mug you got there?

>> I do. Is there are you going to spill it

if you blow bubbles into it or is it

like half

>> blow bubbles into it? Fantastic.

>> Stick the straw in there.

>> Okay.

>> And just blow bubbles.

Now do the same thing with the tones

while you blow the bubbles.

>> Oh my god, Amy Fer is doing snow

bubbles. That's a big thing we do in

cool down to help the voice reset. It's

like a little massage for the vocal

cords after heavy use. You know, it's so

amazing the the uh the now honestly

having a podcast, I've realized I see

like I see what it does even just

talking what it does to your vocal cords

and they need a lot of love.

>> Well, we can help you come up with a

warm up and a cool down before taping

days. I'd love to do that with you,

>> Doug. Listen, I'd love that. And I'd

also love to make every guest watch me

do it and make them very uncomfortable

while I take my time doing it, you know.

[laughter]

Okay, so Haley um is coming in today and

I hope I don't, as the kids say, glaze

her too hard, but I just I I love her.

>> Well, you probably will.

>> I know I will. I love her. What do you

think is a question that um I should ask

Haley today that she doesn't get asked

or that you'd want to hear or um you

know, think it would be a good thing for

us to talk about?

>> Okay, I thought of two so you can decide

if you want to do one or both. Um, one,

you know how like Batman has the bat

symbol in the sky? If there was going to

be a symbol in the sky to summon Haley

Williams, what would it be?

>> What an incredible question. So

creative.

>> And then the other one is, you know how

everybody has like, what's your last

meal? I want to know what is the last

song she wants to hear before she dies.

>> I mean, so emotional.

>> Yeah. Welcome. [laughter]

>> I What is the last song you want to hear

before you die?

Whoa, that's a heavy

>> She'll have an answer, too. I bet she'll

know the answer.

>> That's so cool. I mean, I want to think

about that for myself, too.

>> I know the ones I don't want to hear.

Like [laughter]

I don't want to hear like elevator music

or like the sound of a carousel.

[laughter]

>> I'm trying to think of what I don't want

to hear.

>> You don't want to be bored and you don't

want to feel like a clown. I love that.

[laughter]

As I finish, you have worked with a lot

of great women.

>> Yes.

>> Who have you had the privilege to work

with?

>> You know, some days Amy, I'm like, "Oh,

it's an all girl schedule." And I'm so

happy. So, it could be a Katherine Han,

Patty Leone, Billy Isish, Haley

Williams. I've worked with Phoebe Brides

a lot lately.

>> Oh, you're working with her today. Not

to brag, but you told me that.

>> That is That is true. Thank you for

making the scheduling work.

>> We'll work around Phoebe. Yeah, that's a

good um I'm working with Rico Nasty

these days and Lauren Mayberry from

churches and lots of up and cominging

people including by the way Haley is the

biggest music fan in the world and she's

always scouting and every once in a

while she'll discover somebody and

she'll tell me or she'll tell her

manager to tell me like make sure Doug

does a lesson with that person cuz we

want that person to start getting ready

to tour and sing all the time. So some

of the great people you haven't quite

heard of yet but you will. I had a

student record her Tiny Desk concert

today, Annie Deruso. Oh my gosh. Wow.

That's exciting. Well, I love you. I

love seeing you. I miss you very much. I

hope we get, you know,

>> we should let everybody know that our

choir was called the Something Something

Singers,

>> and we did two shows. We did it for the

um Motion Picture Academy, the um

Retirement Home in LA, and we did it for

LA Children's Hospital.

>> Um can I show you my Haley Williams

tattoo?

>> Yes.

[laughter]

>> [gasps]

>> Oh,

>> that

>> that is Haley Williams on stage at the

ERS tour spitting in the air in her

trans rights top. And I was like, I

[ __ ] love this woman so much.

>> So, Doug, you know, we don't ever get

any talented uh pianists here. So, um

could you finish our uh time by just

playing us out?

>> I'm going to give you a little bit of

True Believer, which is my favorite on

this.

>> True Believer. Here we go.

>> [music]

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>> Haley Williams is here. Hi. So happy

that you're here.

>> Oh my god. I feel like I've waited for

this my whole career. My whole life.

I've been making music for 20 years so

that I could finally get to you.

[laughter]

>> Wow. You know what this is? I'm blushing

because you are When we made this

podcast, we were like talking about

dream guests and you were one of them.

>> Oh my god. I don't even I really don't

know what to say to that.

>> Okay. Well, you better figure it out cuz

I'm going to think about it.

>> We're rolling. No. Um, we um we were

talking about having you on today and

Okay, I don't I'm I'm kind of nervous.

[laughter]

>> I'm such a fan. I'm such a fan. Yes.

>> Thank you so much.

>> And as the kids say, I'm going to I'm

just going to glaze you. I'm going to be

glaze on glazing.

>> Glaze me.

>> It's going to be a glaze fest because

I'll glaze you back.

>> Are you on some kind of tour right now?

Like you're on

>> Well, like basically a promo. I mean, I

This has been really nice. I feel like

I've only had I've only had to do the

stuff that's been like I've really felt

excited to do,

>> but you know, it's like being on C. It's

just I just feel like I'm on the

internet all the time and I So, I won't

be on tour until next year and by that

time hopefully I have a dumb phone and I

just don't see the internet or

>> Yeah. How do you feel? I mean, your Jen

has an interesting relationship with the

internet. It is like a lovehate

relationship basically.

>> It is a lovehate. I'm really addicted to

it. Me too.

>> It sucks.

>> I feel like I thought maybe my

generation was more addicted than you

guys. You guys, but you guys are the

most.

>> We Well, I mean, how old was I when my

mom My mom was a teacher? So, like a

public school teacher.

>> Public school teacher.

>> Like, you grew up Did you grow up going

to her classrooms and stuff? It was the

best.

>> Okay. What kind of teacher was your mom

>> back then? She was teaching elementary

school like second and third

[clears throat] grade. And um I never

she was never my teacher, but I I went

to that school. And

>> same. Isn't it funny to have your mom as

a teacher in the school?

>> Did you hang out at the school

afterwards?

>> Yeah, we often got there early if we

were going in with her or we'd stay

after and you kind of like see the other

teachers.

>> Yeah.

>> After school, which is a trip.

>> It's such It's like It's like Mean Girls

when they see Tina at the mall.

>> When they peek in and see Tina at the

mall. Yeah.

>> I [laughter] It really is like that. I

that resonated with me deeply.

>> I know. It does feel like you're like

peeking behind the curtain. Very um

>> like don't look at the wizard style,

>> right? [laughter]

Yeah.

>> Okay. When you came in, you asked about

a mutual friend that we have.

>> Yes.

>> So, we do have a mutual friend and he's

the most loveliest guy ever. His name is

What is his name?

>> Doug Peek. So, um, we have a thing on

this show where we, um, at the beginning

of each episode, we kind of talk well

behind our guests back and we talk

[clears throat] to somebody who knows

them and get and get a question from

them to ask you. And we talked to Doug

Peek today.

>> WE DID.

>> YES. [screaming]

LOVE IT.

>> AND HE GAVE ME A VOCAL warm up for us to

do.

>> Shut your mouth. I This is the best day

of my life.

>> Okay. And he and I kind of forget what

he said.

>> Okay. Maybe I can maybe I can pick up on

also amazingly had a piano right under

frame [laughter] that he started to play

and I was like where is that coming from

but because I was like Doug I'm excited

to talk to Hilly and and he's like okay

and he gave us he g he said one of your

favorite warm-ups is that like um well I

think it's like [laughter] I'm afraid to

do it but it was like oh yeah oh is it

it's like with your belly cuz I really

have trouble connecting to my diaphragm

sometimes

>> I he asked me how is your body feeling

and I was like I don't know what you're

talking

>> [laughter]

>> Okay. So, let's do it. Okay. So, um

yeah. So, feel your feel your belly kind

of bounce when you [laughter]

[panting]

Okay. And then you can add notes to it.

So like

h

[laughter]

that's it. Really wakes up this whole

like everything.

>> It does.

>> Yeah, it really helps. We were just

talking today about you and I mean

there's just it's hard to not start with

your voice because your voice to me um

and here comes the glaze.

Your voice to me is [laughter]

get prepared for

[gasps] is it is its own country. It's

like it has such a incredible history.

like I feel like I've been a fan of it

and you and your work for so long and

I've watched it change and I watch and

what I love about this new record which

I love um um Ego Death at a bachelorette

party is

>> the way you kind of play around with

your voice in a conf in my opinion a

confident way as someone who feels

>> like they're ready to just kind of like

see where their voice goes and play

around with it. So, I guess my my first

question to you is when did you

form a relationship with your voice?

>> Whoa, that's a cool question to think

about. I think [gasps and sighs]

young um I was I was I was remembering

this not too long ago and I think this

must be it. I would go to church with my

mom and my with my family as a kid.

>> And um I was I was a very anxious,

stressed out little kid. And my mom and

I kind of, you know, she was in a not

great marriage. It was my mom's second

marriage.

>> And I think I just had anxiety a lot. So

we would go to church and everyone would

sing out of the himynil and they're not

fun songs to sing, right? You know, it's

it's boring when you're a kid

especially, right? And but I noticed

that my stomach ache would go away

>> and I I I couldn't explain it but I just

I started singing I started singing more

to the hymns along you know along with

the hymns at church

>> and um it just soothed me you know it

like I think it grounded me and it

slowed me down and then obviously you

know all these many many years later and

everything that I I love to learn about

the body and and especially what what

you like body keeps the score type

stuff. I I'm really interested in that

>> and reading about how the voice can tone

the the vagus nerve and which controls

so much of this this anxiety stuff and

how we regulate. Um it makes perfect

sense. But I intuited that as a I must

have I mean god I must have been like

eight or nine years old. That's really

>> so interesting. Even just doing that

thing we just did, right? Like even the

exhalation of breath, even that

>> Yeah.

>> is it is major. When you actually do it,

you realize, oh, I've been holding my

breath.

>> Oh my god. Yes.

>> I mean, and I do a lot of sighing.

>> Oh,

>> around the house. And I used to just

think that was my personality, like

[sighs]

>> you know, as if I was over it. But I

realized it was just an exhalation of

anxiety. That was just basically it. I

was just trying to get some breath out.

And you are soothing yourself like your

system by doing it.

>> Yeah. I I it's

>> I love that science. I I just that's

endlessly fascinating. And Doug, because

he's a sematic voice coach,

>> we do so many things that I think um if

you've never done that kind of work from

the outside would look really weird. And

I I get up and I move around a lot

during our lessons. You're making me

think of two things. one which is I

often say and have said on this podcast

like when I get to a party and I'm

anxious I like to dance and I realize

like of course I like to just do exactly

that kind of thing like shake it out.

>> That's good.

>> But the other thing is and I want to

talk to you about performing. You have

written a lot of songs where you have to

just like get to this note that maybe

you wrote 20 20 years [laughter] ago.

>> Yeah. Like

>> I mean some version it's like okay I

could you know like I got to get to it.

And I was saying to Doug like it's it's

really hard to um it's like a high dive

where everyone's you know and I'm

thinking specifically of a couple

moments like all I wanted.

>> All I wanted. Yeah. Oh my the anxiety.

>> Okay. But you

that's Doug. But talk to us about like

for example the journey of and for

people who don't know there is an

amazing song a paramore song and it hits

a note that is like so satisfying for

you to get what is what is the note of

that is it a

>> I actually don't know and I forgot

>> Doug knows

>> my usually my my sweet spot of like not

too high and I can do keep doing this

throughout a show is around

a C uh C an E above middle C which is

like so if middle C is in the center of

the piano, you're like right here.

>> So could you could you whisper that

sound? You don't have to sing it, but

could you So is it like

>> like from the song?

>> No, but it's like Yeah.

>> Um I don't have perfect pitch, so I

don't think I could like

>> I don't I don't think I could pick it

out out of the out of thin air, but

let's just guess and then Doug can be at

home and he can tell us I was wrong.

>> I have a laptop, too. I can Oh, yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So, what's our what's

the note we want?

>> Um we want C above middle C.

cuz I didn't even know that existed.

>> I think E is kind of where I'd end up

belting a lot of Paramore songs, but I

think All I wanted might be higher than

that. And that's why it's always scared

me cuz it's just my muscle memory.

>> 1 2 3 4 1 2 3 4 1 2 It

>> It's It's got to be higher than that.

[laughter]

>> C above middle C. But I think that E I

think that E is the one. I might want to

try EA middle C.

>> Yes. E above middle C. LET'S GO HIGHER.

>> I DON'T KNOW.

>> LET'S GO HIGHER.

LAPTOP'S GOING TO CATCH on fire. Okay.

Here [laughter] we go. E above middle C.

I think this is it.

>> Okay.

>> No,

>> that's a lower one.

>> That's a lower. That's mid piano note.

I'm so sorry. [screaming]

>> Why do I think all I want I think all I

wanted is higher than this. It was you.

Yeah [laughter]

you did it too.

[laughter]

>> Come to a voice lesson. Let's get this

down.

>> Okay. So you but you the journey of and

I and I let thank you for letting me

digress into this before I talk about

record but but talk about like so you've

got this note for example a note like

that

>> and you're driving to it and you want to

sing it on tour and you're deciding like

>> okay I want to make sure I want to bring

this back in and how do you then train

for that moment? Oh, I'm I mean a lot of

warming up and warming down after shows.

>> I already I've already heard about

warming down.

>> Warming down. Do you ever do it like

>> No, I I I I'm learning. I should help.

>> Can you read music?

>> No, I did maybe for a few years in my

life when I took piano, but I got so

bored with the theory part. I just

wanted to play [ __ ] that I wanted to

sing along to. So, um, it's really I I

really regret it when I listen to

someone like Doug talk about theory and

and spout off these, you know, this

stuff that's so inherent to him as an

artist and as a teacher.

>> It's like, uh, dang, I really should

have stayed in piano lessons. But

>> it feels like everybody who who quit who

quit feels that way, like it would have

been cool if I just kept ching along

with the flute. I would have been such a

badass.

>> I do. Can you play any instruments?

>> No. I can play a few a few chords on

guitar and like a song or two in the

piano and I used to play flute when I

was a kid.

>> You did?

>> Yes. And imagine if I could

>> flute is chic.

>> I mean maybe.

>> But you know what I liked about the

flute? The most embarrassing part

[laughter] was

>> cleaning it. Cleaning it.

>> I'm so sorry. But for those people,

what's that process like? You take at

the end you were like, I played it and

look, I didn't learn anything.

[laughter] But then you take IT APART. I

TAKE IT unscrew it and you have to clean

all the parts and use special brushes

and you put it back in the flute case

and you were like, "No, it's clean." Has

this [laughter]

does this translate to like other parts

of your life? Do you like to clean and

organize?

>> Oh, yeah. Very much so. Very much so.

>> What's that like?

>> It's like um it's like a way to like

quiet like the ticky tacky. My brain is

just like, well, the seat's clean

>> and it's in the box.

>> You got to take that up.

>> Okay. So, little Haley's singing in

church. Then you're But you know how to

play guitar and piano. How do you learn

that?

>> Now I know how to play guitar, but back

then I think I probably only knew how to

play piano and I was learning to play

the drums.

>> Um, you know, I saw one video of Zack

Hansen on the television when I was a

kid and I was like,

>> now I got to play drums. And um I yeah I

started playing eventually and I I would

play at church, you know, like I think

my experience of music when I was living

in Mississippi was just so much at

church cuz no friends I didn't know

anyone at school that wanted to play

music.

>> Um but you know there was access to

instruments and things at the church. So

>> and you moved to Tennessee in your when

you were a teen and that kind of

[clears throat] changed everything,

right?

>> That kind of blew my world open. And I

mean, I met Zach, who's our drummer, the

first day of this homeschool program

that my mom put me in. Uh I could I

tried to go to public school. I was such

a nerd. I really got bullied. So I I

didn't make it very long here. It's

okay. I when I think about it now, I'm

like

>> it was my mom and I were on such an

adventure. We had run away from

Mississippi. This was like,

>> you know, the the great wide world. And

I

>> I didn't really again I got to this

public school and I was like well none

of these there's like one goth kid at

the school that like will talk to me

about music

>> and that was it. And then I met Zach the

first day of this other program and he

was like you got to come hear me in my

brother's band and I and he's younger

than me and I'm going like oh there

there are people my age that that like

to make stuff and they they they see the

world a little differently and I'm not

crazy. I think it's always tender when

bands come together that first part

because it's like what do you like what

do you like and you guys were especially

young.

>> We were so were you who did you you know

how you kind of trade bands with each

other to just test taste? Who did you

guys both like say that you liked you

know in those early years? Like

>> I think Zach already had this he already

knew of a different world of music that

I was not exposed to yet and he kind of

showed me that and it was bands like

Failure. It was bands like um

>> uh And You Will Know Us by the Trail of

Dead, you know, like it was hum

>> who are who are playing shows next year.

I just found out. Um I I probably won't

get to see them cuz I'll probably be on

tour but

>> I know when you're on tour, you can't do

anything. I can't do any even like you

bring out a band that you love that you

want to hang out and watch and you're

just like warming up while they're on

stage, you know? [laughter]

>> Yeah. But Zach just love I mean Zach is

the reason that I knew Elliot Smith's

music as a really young kid and

>> you know I remember him making me mix

CDs. So

>> I got such a cool education really fast.

He had two older brothers that also

liked cool music.

>> A lot of people learn their music from

their older siblings. Yes. And I didn't

have any older siblings.

>> I'm the oldest.

>> Oh, you're eldest daughter.

>> Yeah, I knew it.

>> Capricorn, too. I heard.

>> Are you a Capricorn?

>> No, I'm a Virgo. But earth sign.

>> Earth. And I'm a Virgo moon.

>> Ooh, I have a Leo moon. That's why I

have this podcast.

>> Oh my god, it makes so much sense.

>> I must I must get I must get some

attention. So for people who don't know

like you join you met the people that

would become members or founders of

Paramore when you were a teeny tiny baby

in high school

>> and you've been with this band for 20

plus years

>> touring all the time making records all

the time and this record is your third

solo um record and what is so

interesting to me and what and getting

back to a question about your voice is

what is the difference between being uh

the lead singer in a band out on stage

performing and being a per being

yourself performing without the band

behind you.

>> Is that not the million-dollar question?

I do not know,

>> right? Because it's a completely

different set of skills almost.

>> It is. I'm very I'm finding myself cuz

we're planning shows for next year. I'm

finding myself really nervous cuz I I

think I for my own good really need to

understand who I am outside of the band.

Like it's it's time. I'm like

>> I'm looking at 40. It's not that many

years away. And I'm just like I should

probably know who I am outside of this

entity.

>> And I'm really I'm very excited for

shows. And I do think that it might

possibly subvert some people's

expectations of, you know, what they

think they're going to get when they see

me on a stage.

>> What do you think people think they're

going to get?

>> I think that with Paramore, I feel and

especially in the LA in the the later

years, like more recently, there's been

some kind of thing I've not this feeling

I've noticed that I very much feel like

a ring leader.

>> And that's not always a positive thing.

I feel that like it's a huge

responsibility to be a mouthpiece for a

group of people. That's right.

>> Um we're all very different individual

individuals and like I want to speak for

myself.

>> Yeah, that's what I'm noticing. I love

that. And it's also I I

have a version of a a similar experience

in that when I was in a sketch group

coming up

>> I read about this

>> and I was the only girl.

>> Oh.

>> Um and not that that matters but it's

something I think it totally matters.

>> It's something. So I really get it that

you want to then decide okay that's

something I've practiced and done and I

want to try something new.

>> Yes. Yeah. I'm I feel like

I'm really enjoying this part of my

career because I actually feel like for

the first time in my career I'm talking

to women.

>> Um growing up it it there was just no

women around.

>> There wasn't a lot of women when you

were on Warp Tour.

[laughter]

>> No, you didn't you didn't have a real

like a great great gang backstage.

>> It wasn't so many that you could chill

with and [laughter] talk about.

Like there were some really amazing

ladies in the production office of

course, but then I was also like, you

know, I mean, I was like pushing gear

with the guys on a skateboard down a

hill across to Merryweather Post

Pavilion, you know, like like I wasn't

hanging out in the production office. I

really think I it it is something to be

the only girl in a gang. [snorts]

>> It is. And it's also like you want to

feel, you know, we could we could talk

about this part forever and you would be

the person to be able to talk about it

with, but it's like how does your the

gender that you identify as, how do you

sublimate it through your work? How do

you like

>> kind of push it aside? How do you play

around with it? Like I feel like you

have really

>> cool ways in which you kind of play

around with the mask and fem side of

you.

>> Thank you. But it's but it sometimes

you're just you need like the space to

be able to do that basically and the

safety to be able to do that.

>> The safety that that's the that one hits

me more. I I think I

the the the era that we grew up in and I

know I've already referenced Mean Girls

one time but you think about like that

>> technically contractually you have to

reference

>> every episode. Okay. [laughter] Have we

done we've done two now so you're good.

You're not going to get a phone call.

[laughter]

>> I'm brilliant.

>> I like I that was a time in in culture

that I do I think more conversations

were starting to happen. But to be

whatever age I was 14, I think baby.

>> Yeah, I was a baby. And I was in that

age range, you know, of all these people

and and like watching the the these

social like this, you know, this

construct that that happens. Um

>> I I feel that

>> once I entered the band world and and

the the music the climate, you know,

especially for like indie and and more

like punk punk subg genres,

>> it didn't feel safe to be a young girl.

Maybe if I was an older woman, I would

have felt differently, but

>> I really sherked any any aspect of me

that was remotely feminine.

>> Um, and it I didn't know this, but it

really hurt me. It like I did it to

myself. No one asked me to do that.

>> Well, a lot of we all did it. A lot of

us did it to

>> because you're scanning, right? You're

always scanning for the dangers. And

>> unfortunately, in the in the industries

that we're both in, there's a lot of

them. And I I think it took me until

probably I remember writing very

neutrally like in terms of my point of

view like I never want to give away

lyrically that you know this is a a

young girl's point of view you know

trying to be smart enough to make that

happen but it was probably like our

fourth album which I would have been in

my early 20s by that point where I

started to play around with my

femininity more and I wasn't so ashamed

of it and you know I if I ever felt

sexy. I didn't like push that feeling

away. Um, and I, you know, because of

that experience, I'm now I'm 36 and I'm

still noticing places where there's a

lot of rigidity around my femininity

>> and I talk to my friends about this a

lot. Um, I don't I mean, it's just kind

of unfolding day by day. I you know you

go through rough things in your life and

I think each time I come around to an

obstacle I'm like okay how do I do this

better than the last time I did I went

through something like this and somehow

femininity is always at the core of the

issue.

>> I so feel you. I feel like it's like a

lot of deprogramming,

>> a lot of like

>> um being just what you said, a little

bit curious and not so judgmental and

just if you're 10% more aware of

anything you're doing, you're you're

hanging in there

>> cuz [sighs and gasps] it's, you know,

you don't you you can't like judge

yourself for what you didn't know.

>> Yeah. Yeah. When you were on tour, were

there is there any women that come to

mind that were kind of guiding lights

or, you know, people that you met along

the way that kind of felt like, oh, I'm

going to take a I'm going to notice them

and I'm going to kind of pay attention

to what they're doing and I'm going to

learn from it.

>> Yeah. The second year we were on Warp

Tour, um Joan Jet and the Blackhearts

played on the main stage like the whole

summer, which is a brutal summer. It's a

long tour. Um, and I would catch them

anytime I could. And we ended up in a

photo shoot together for I think it was

for Billboard and I kissed her on the

cheek. I'm very shy. I don't if I like

if we weren't doing this, I don't know

when I would have ever met you. Like I

don't cuz I'm so I just don't I never

want to bother people and I am quite shy

when I'm not on stage. And

>> I I don't know. we were standing next to

each other and I just kissed her on the

cheek and I remember being like I love

her

>> and I didn't know anything about her

other than she was in the runaways and I

had a runaways poster on my wall as a

teenager.

>> Um but I thought she was I thought she

was just I liked her masculinity.

>> Yeah,

>> I liked that she wasn't embarrassed to

have that side of her as a woman and she

was also very sexy. Mhm.

>> Um, so that was probably the first woman

that I really like performer that I was

really around

>> um for for like an extended period of

time uh in my young in my early career.

And then, you know, I I just this year I

met Kathleen Hannah

>> and I I told her I was like, I I just I

haven't had many of these conversations.

And it's so validating to it's so

validating, by the way, to read books

like your book and Kathleen's book and

and read about women. I I um

>> you know, I have amaz my mom and my

granny are like these incredible women

in my life that I've learned so much

from. My mom and I are like really close

in age and all that, but I I learned

there's we have so much grace for each

other and I I'm very thankful for those

relationships, but I didn't have

anything outside of my family

>> to really like

>> soak up Yeah.

>> wisdom from other women.

>> Yeah.

>> So, I'm like the proximity of them. And

you must have you must have felt that on

the Aerys tour like you got to be around

all these incredible women

>> and an incredible woman at the helm and

you just got to feel what it feels like

to be in that

>> Yeah.

>> matriarchal simulation.

>> Totally. It is a different It's a

different feeling altogether. I mean

there was just there was a time too

where we would go a whole year and I

wouldn't see another girl on stage. M

>> um and now when we now that we have

>> the power to choose to make those

choices, it's so nice to get to be

intentional about that and to think

about the conversations you might get to

have backstage and what I might learn or

what I might be able to

>> offer um another artist that you know

that's maybe like the Linda Lindas. I

love those girls. Like I love them and I

just think that they're they're so smart

and they're so aware like politically

like aware and

>> and not not afraid. I think that it's

very a healing for me to see

>> young like teenage people be so be so

bold about what they believe in and and

[clears throat]

>> and really confident in their playing

and how they perform and that their

friendships. It's it's really healing to

see that. Well, you probably I mean I

have a a couple questions about the

Aerys tour and they're practical

questions. They're like, "What is it

like to perform early in the day?"

>> I love it.

>> It sounds amazing.

>> If I never I've already told the team

like if we get festival offers, please

don't make me play after the sun starts

to go down.

>> I completely agree.

>> Nothing good is happening out there.

>> You can be done by what 8:30.

>> I want to have a normal dinner.

>> A normal dinner. This is what Tina and I

go on tour and we do like 4:00 and 6:00

shows. [laughter]

>> Babe, you can do a 4:00 show.

>> I mean, you're the boss, so you can.

>> And guess what? People are going to show

up and you can say to them, you can say,

"Good night. Enjoy your dinner." And

they're like, "I'm I'm in bed by 7:30."

>> Oh my god, that is we did do that on the

air. So, what at the like you had a long

stretch when you were with them, you in

a bunch of different cities um

[clears throat]

>> with Taylor Swift on the error store.

What did you do after the show

>> when Well, when we were in the UK, I

loved this because you know BBC No, not

BBC E4. I can't remember what channel it

is, but they play Gogglebox. Have you

watched Gogglebox?

>> Yes, I've heard of Goggle Box.

>> My god, Amy, this is my favorite show of

all time. I just love

>> explain to people what it is for people

who don't know. So, imagine Amy and I

are like we're watching television

together and all these cameras are still

here, which honestly sounds terrifying,

but [laughter] um but like it's just

families and friends

watching TV like commenting on what

they're seeing. And some of it is like,

you know, soap opera type [ __ ] and other

times it's like Boris Johnson.

>> Yeah. I've seen some like I often see

some clips of like heavy beautiful

scenes where like a young teen is coming

out to his parents and then they'll show

all the different reactions and you

think like oh this very bluecollar

family is going to have a tough time

with it and they never do.

>> Oh my god. England is just full of

angels. [laughter]

>> Well, according to Gogglebox.

Yeah, according to Gottle Box, it's very

it's very wholesome and I love to just

>> I can see

>> pop a neti or two and just sink into a

you know have some room service around.

>> I was going to say let me watch what

people are watching.

>> Um okay. So you would like watch TV?

>> Yeah.

>> After you would chill out. You would not

go out.

>> We went out some. We we had a lot of

days off, too. And we would like my

favorite days were Portugal. We were in

Portugal for like 4 days before the

shows started. And we did one day on

like this little boat. The guys and I

all went out, our our crew, everybody. I

think there was like 40 of us, maybe 30

of us total. And um we went out and

we're not talking about like a yacht

situation, but it was very cute. And we

went out and we swam. Uh, well, the guys

swam and then we found out later it's

like a really not a good idea to swim in

that water. But, um,

>> and you had the instinct to not go in.

>> I did. Yeah. I didn't want to be cold.

I'm not I'm not a cold person.

>> Yeah. You don't you never do like a cold

plunge or any of that.

>> You love a cold plunge. [laughter]

>> I know this about you. And look how

you're radiant.

>> I thank you. It's It's And it's not

about the skin, although that's a nice

bio.

>> The skin is all I care [laughter] about.

The insides can be rotting out.

>> Let my skin glow, please. Okay. It's

good for inflammation.

>> Oh [ __ ]

>> I know.

>> I don't want you to tell me that.

>> And you know, you don't have to do it.

You never ever have to do it.

>> Maybe soon.

>> I think it has. And honestly, it's

really helped with anxiety and

depression. Really?

>> Yes. Cuz it talk about sematic. It flips

on your like um

>> fight or flight.

>> It flips on some kind of oh no, I'm

going to die. I'm so cold. [laughter]

>> But how does that help?

>> Because the high when you're still alive

is [laughter]

Have you ever like thrown up on stage?

>> I've never thrown up on sta. I actually

don't think I've thrown up from a show.

I have. I have.

>> Amazing.

>> I blacked out on stage at

>> ACL

um like the last album cycle, but I

didn't pass out. I like blacked out.

Pink Panther was on stage singing Misery

Business with us

>> and I had this moment where I was like I

just went out for two seconds and I came

back. [laughter] It turns out I was

sick. So, I found that out later. But,

um, but other than that, I've only had a

few instances where like there was one

time Mexico a festival in Mexico City, I

almost [ __ ] my pants through a band. Um,

blacked out at the same time.

>> I was going to ask, I didn't want to be

rude, but I mean, how after so many

shows, have you not had

>> not [ __ ] my pants? I really

>> I [laughter] mean, I I assume every

pretty much every singer I see, I assume

that they've [ __ ] their [laughter]

pants.

Not on stage plenty of times off stage.

I mean, there's nothing you can do about

it.

>> I think it's like it's like when you're

on your period and you go in the water,

apparently it just like

>> it just goes.

>> I think that's what happens on stage

with me. It's just like we're not doing

this.

>> Yeah.

>> Wait until after. Women are incredible.

>> Women are so strong.

>> So, we Women most of the time don't [ __ ]

their pants. [laughter]

>> Like most of the time,

>> that's like a guy thing, actually. I'm

sorry.

>> 100% is true. I don't I don't know any

women today that have pooped their pants

[laughter] once. Any No one here in the

studio today. Today not once.

>> We should just all try it together once

so we can know. But it is it is it's

super physical. And then the the other I

have so many like because I feel like

there's a version where one must like

>> disassociate and just kind of be in your

world and sing and other times where you

want to feed off of the eye contact from

people and is that just you're just

always adjusting with that or

>> Yeah. I I don't know if I'm I don't know

if I'm fully present to like that

awareness when I'm in it,

>> but I I get such a rush. I mean,

especially at a Paramore show, I usually

recognize a lot of the people in the

front. So, we're all we'll we'll have

like a relationship then throughout that

show where I'm like, I know you. I've

seen you a million times and like you're

with me.

>> But then I'll spot other people and I

can I can really feel it's almost like I

intuit it what the song means to them.

I'm not thinking about what it means to

me anymore. It's so healing. It's very

liberating actually cuz I love to write

about stuff that'll just make you so

depressed, you know, like I I need to

get that out. So to have an experience

with other people that takes it away

from me is really um I I really need

that. I think

>> what what's a song or a lyric or a

moment that has been given back to you

by a fan like by or by someone in the

audience singing it back to you that's

changed the meaning of what you wrote?

>> Oh wow. Because that's a very cool thing

you just brought up. I didn't even think

about it. I mean, to me, I my my

question was going to be what does it

feel like to pass around all these like

feelings to people so that they can all,

>> you know, they can all have their

feelings about it and become detectives

about it. But

>> I realize there must be a gift also in

the way people sing the song back to

you, tell you what they feel about the

song, that it must change the meaning of

the song.

>> It It really does.

>> Does anything come to mind? Well, the

first one that comes to mind is this

song called Last Hope from our fourth

album or we we had a self-titled record

that came out when Zach left the band.

Um he left the band with his brother who

started the band with us when we were

teenagers and um

>> it was really Taylor and I were writing

and I was we were both really sad and I

just kind of also felt like I mean what

does a band matter, you I really was

feeling so existential about the whole

thing and I can't remember it's the

lyric in the bridge. It's like the the

um the salt in my wounds isn't burning

doesn't burn quite as much as it used

to. I I can't remember exactly the words

right now, but it I [clears throat] just

remember writing it and being like this

is so sad and that it unfortunately is

how I feel and I've I've really

struggled with my mental health and and

kind of like you know I've wanted to not

be here plenty of times and

>> that song kind of expressed that in the

moment for me having that at a Paramore

show that moment

and feeling like everyone in the room

has survived. so many different things

and we're all here. Half of us will

never see each other again.

>> Um, it really does something to those

types of songs where I wrote them in

such isolation

>> and now here I am having to like not

only

>> be witnessed but bear witness to all

these other experiences that are that

have

>> coalesed. And people are just physically

joyously singing that back to you,

smiling and being like, "Thank you for

writing that thing." Like,

>> dude, joy is really joy is a is a is a

tough emotion for me.

>> Um because I don't trust it. I always

think it's going to the piano's going to

fall from the sky is what I say to like

it's just going to

>> hit me when I least expect it. And I

think that's why Paramore shows, at

least for me, they they feel so joyous

because I'm I'm relying on a lot of

other things.

>> I'm not thinking so much about my own

experience. And when we can transcend

our own experience, it's like

>> for me, joy becomes more tangible. It's

like uh

>> I'm not controlling what's happening

anyway.

>> Yeah. and this thing is is being offered

up. We're all kind of creating this

energy together and we just get to reach

up into and pull it down into our hearts

and it it's like it's very wholesome.

It's um

>> it is it's I mean it's very uh

primal. It's very primal.

>> Singing with other people like just the

frequency of that in a room is powerful.

>> Yeah. Can we talk about being short?

[laughter]

>> Can we please [ __ ] talk about being

short? We're both 5'2 according to

Wikipedia. Are you a Are you a natural

52?

>> Yeah, I am. In fact, one time I did the

whole insurance thing. They come, they

take your blood and all that stuff and

they were like, "You're 53." And I never

let it go. It's on my driver's license.

>> 53 is on MY DRIVER'S LICENSE, TOO.

[laughter] CUZ THEY MEASURED ME AT 53,

which I'm not. I'm 5'2. But I was like,

and they were like 53. And I was like,

"Okay."

>> I was super pumped.

>> Oh my god. I was so relieved. Actually,

>> what's the good thing about being 5'2

and what's a bummer? Well, so so my

friend Daniel that I made the record

with um is probably like 63.

I don't

>> Isn't it funny that you don't know

because anyone over a certain height I'm

like just tall

>> just a building. I don't like I don't

know. I'm just walking through New York

every [laughter] day of my life. But

[gasps] um he we were we were standing

on like a porch of a house that was kind

of like on a hill and then there were

there were chairs and I was like you're

way up there, man. like you're like

we're already standing at top this

little hill

>> and I so I got on the chair and I stood

next to I stood on the chair next to him

where I was even with him and I felt so

vulnerable to the elements. I was like

>> closer to the sun.

>> This is not where I want to be.

>> No. Too windy up there.

>> It's too windy. Yeah.

>> I don't like to be cold.

>> Yeah. Too cold.

>> And I hate wind if I'm being honest.

>> Yeah. Get down under Get down back into

your shorts. [laughter] I just I just I

really felt scared for like a few

minutes. So I

>> You tip over. I don't know how tall

people don't constantly tip over.

[laughter]

>> And it's like not our business what's

happening up there.

>> It's not our business what's up there.

>> I don't want to know.

>> It's like if something's important,

shout it down. [laughter]

>> But we don't need to go up there.

>> Yeah. I mean really though. I I

>> I do though when I'm shopping I hate

being short.

>> It sucks. Every

>> It's so embarrassing.

>> It's so embarrassing. every pair of

pants you look like a little kid

[laughter] like like swishing around in

>> standing around, [laughter] you know?

>> Totally. Every nothing fits. Nothing is

made for short shorties.

>> It's really not. And now that I'm

getting a little bit older, I'm like

learning about like

if my torso is the right length and if

this part of my body I'm just like I

don't want to know this.

>> Do you have anything on your body that's

long?

>> My dick. [laughter]

>> [laughter]

>> It's perfect.

>> But it's also really wide, [laughter]

>> which is like, what do I do with this?

>> Ladies love it. I just always told me,

>> hold it and roll it.

[laughter]

>> And then one, prepare for one more

glaze.

>> Okay.

>> Okay.

>> I'm [laughter] ready.

>> Well, actually, I don't know if this is

the last glaze, but prepare for another

glaze.

>> Okay. But um you you are an artist that

other artists, male and female, feel

like like you are a lot of people's

favorite artists favorite artist. You

are they love working with you. They

have huge

>> tender feelings about being um in your

orbit. They on stage feel very like like

they're kind of loving you in real time

on stage. and you've worked with a ton

of people who love working with you and

would, you know, we'd be able to get 20

people to talk about how much they love

you. Who right now, like who do you, who

are your people right now that when you

get to see them, perform with them, be

with them, they feel like they're part

of a peer group that like lift you up

and support you or people that are up on

that you're hoping to support and and

bring along for the next ride. man.

Well, I got to perform with the Linda

Lindas in London and I felt really proud

of them. I get to I get to do more stuff

with David Burn this year and I know

that's going to feel like it's weird.

It's interesting cuz Linda Linda are

younger than me. David's older than me.

>> Well, that's what I feel like being in

your mid30s

>> feels like is you're really

>> feeling a little

>> in the middle.

>> In the middle. Yeah. And u um you know

if you know if your 20s are figuring out

what you want to do, then your 30s are

kind of figuring out what you don't want

to do. And so you're kind of letting go

of things that aren't working for you

anymore. But that vacuum gets filled

with cool stuff like and you're looking

ahead and back. Like it's I mean what do

you think your 30s feel like

>> or have felt like?

>> Honestly enjoying you talking about it

because I

>> 30s are weird. Like it's

>> they're weird. Especially the middle of

my 30s. I still felt very young in my

early 30s. Like I still felt very um

what's the difference between 28 and 32?

I felt like it was all the same.

Something happened at 35.

>> I started seeing myself like seeing

pictures and being like, "Oh, that's

different."

>> Um but I also still feel spritly and

have energy and and almost like a

renewed passion that makes me want to

>> like live it all up.

>> Yeah. It's It's just a I didn't expect

30s to be like this.

>> Well, I mean, did I guess I want to know

>> what did you expect 30s to be like? Is

it funny when we're younger? Like when

I'm like, what feels old? Because I I

I'm here to tell you I'm 54. I don't

feel any I don't feel

>> old. But when I was a young person, if

someone was like, "She's 50." It would

be like, "Oh my [laughter] god,

>> that's the oldest number I can think

of." And but it's so funny here to tell

you from like dis sending you a dispatch

from 54. I don't feel that different.

>> It really excites me.

>> Yeah.

>> It excites me because I see like cuz to

being 36 when you say 54, maybe this is

the age where like that doesn't sound

old to me. That doesn't that doesn't

scare me. I think it sounds better than

36 in a lot of ways. harder to be in the

middle.

>> Yeah, the middle hard. The middle's

hard. Hell is the hallway.

>> Hell is the hallway.

>> Life is a highway, but hell

>> hell is the hallway. We just wrote a

whole song. No one's ever written any of

those words. [laughter]

Okay. And then and then the the last

thing I'll say is that I I I see in the

in the music world what happens a lot in

in in the more like actor comedy world

which is women who are very very

different are kind of asked to be a

member of the same group and they're all

really different with different styles

and different ways of approaching things

and

>> but you have an incredible you're in an

incredible time right now for just women

in music. They're just dominating.

>> Oh my god. So many different styles.

>> Exactly. Yeah. I'm I'm really enjoying

watching women on stages right now

because of what you said. It's it's so

many different personalities. I I am I

love um Mannequin [ __ ] I think

>> Yeah, they're amazing.

>> They're amazing. And

>> singer. Talk about a voice.

>> Yeah. Yeah. I and we just connected over

like just over DMs and um Missy was

talking about losing her voice and we

were kind of like kiking about that a

little bit and talking about this

initiative that she was she told me

about this no music for genocide

initiative and it's just so nice again

to talk to other women in music that

like we don't have to be doing the same

thing. We don't have to

be on completely different sides of the

musical landscape, but

>> it I feel so much less alone by

>> engaging in it more. And I I just it's

so exciting. Also, like I was just

telling my friends this morning, I I

normally listen to like, you know, I I

like bands and I like heavy music and I

like weird, you know, I like all the

stuff that's happening in Copenhagen

right now. What's happening in

Copenhagen? Oh, there's such a great

music scene in Copenhagen. It's what?

>> Yes, I'll send you a playlist. It is

>> I would love it. It's Is it all It's

like heavy heavy Copenhagen.

>> No, it's it's not heavy. It's a It's a

vibe. And I've always liked music from

that from like Scandinavian artists, you

know. But also, I just like was

listening to um I put on this Olivia

Dean song

>> called A Man I Need. And I start and I

was like, "Oh, I know it." Cuz I've seen

the clips all over the internet.

>> And I started singing along to it. and I

started crying to it. And I think it's

because it's so it feels joyful. It

feels very feminine. It's not my mouth

doesn't make those shapes very often and

my body like really responded to it. So,

um I just Yeah, there's so many

different types of music happening right

now that I'm so inspired by.

>> That's awesome.

>> Yeah, it's fun.

>> And what are you listening to, watching,

reading? What do you do to laugh? What

do you do when you want to get up uh you

know get on the elevator and get up out

of the

>> like what makes you laugh?

>> Wayne's World. [laughter] It's my

favorite movie of all time.

>> Let's talk about how much we how great

Wayne's

>> Can we please talk about it? I mean,

Dana Carvey was

instrumental for me when I was he was

in, you know, like you always kind of

fall in love with the SNL cast that you

saw when you were like 13, 14

>> and he him and Jan Hooks and like that

cast, Bill Hartman and Mike Myers was an

improviser who came out of the theater

that I studied at. So Mike was a kind of

an example of like one of us can make

it.

>> Wow.

>> He kind of came up through that system,

that Chicago system and got on SNL. So

those two were and but what do you like

about Wayne's World?

>> I [laughter]

>> Why does Wayne's World make you laugh?

>> Well, so my parents were really young

and I I think that's why I got to grow

up on stuff like that from the early

early 90s or the late ' 80s.

>> And um I thought that's how we would

dress when we became adults.

>> I was like this is how adults dress. We

wear fishnetss under denim ripped up

shorts. We wear flannels over Aerosmith

T-shirts. And I literally dress like

that. I mean, I just I that movie has

it's like the Godfather to me.

>> Like I quote that movie all the time.

>> What's your one of your favorite scenes

in Wayne's World?

>> Oh, this is good. Well, it's probably

the dreamw weaver scene. It's probably

when they first see Cassandra

>> and um that gorgeous woman played by Tia

Carrera.

>> Tia Carrera, my queen.

>> Incredible. Oh,

>> and uh Chris Trager's Rob Low is in um

Wayne's World. Uh Rolo, as we like to

call him,

>> you know, I did not like Rob Low until

much later in his career.

>> He was bad in Wayne's world. Like he was

the the villain in Wayne's World.

>> Yes, I I believe Parks and Wreck was my

was the redemption tour.

>> Okay, so we'll finish with Doug's two

questions because they were great

questions, of course. So good. So Doug

had two questions for you. And um and by

the way, make sure you check out Wayne's

World

>> if you haven't seen Wayne's World. What

the [ __ ] Honestly.

>> Yeah.

>> Do you have to bleep curse words?

>> No,

>> you don't.

>> We don't have to bleep on this.

>> Oh my god. FIGHT THE POWER. [laughter]

>> YEAH. INCREDIBLE. It's so incredible.

>> Freedom.

>> Um freedom. Um okay. He had two great

questions. One was um you know how

Batman has a symbol in the sky that

calls Batman? [laughter] Yeah.

>> What would Haley Williams symbol be?

[laughter]

>> And it can be anything.

>> Yes.

Do you know in Wayne's world when

they're driving in the Gremlin

and it's the middle of Bohemian Rap City

when the guitar like kind of breaks down

>> and the camera pans up and there's like

a car on top of a pole. I think it's a

car. It's like a sign for something and

it it would be like that, but it would

just be the gremlin. [laughter]

>> It would be way

>> and it would have a glow behind it.

>> You would see it in the sky and be like,

>> "Got to go. [laughter]

>> Got to go.

>> It's time."

[gasps]

>> You know what I mean?

>> Yeah. Got to get in there. Got to get in

that world.

>> It would be like that. And and

>> very faintly from a distance, Bohemian

Rapsy might even be playing a little.

Yeah. [laughter]

>> What's your favorite part of Bohemian

Rap City?

>> Um,

>> it's uh

you think

that's my favorite part,

>> of course. And then the um the the next

question, which is wild, is

what [laughter] what is the last song

that you want to hear before you die?

[laughter]

Okay. Oh, no.

>> I know. And your and and

do you feel like you would know it?

>> Staying alive.

>> That was always my funeral song, but

[laughter] I suppose it would be kind of

cool to go out to it as well.

>> And you know, want to add an extra layer

to it. That is supposedly the beat that

you're supposed to do CPR to.

>> Stop.

>> Mhm. Stay in. That's when we learned

CPR. It was like ha ha ha ha. [laughter]

Stay alive. Stay alive. And then then

breathe into their mouth.

>> Whoa. [laughter]

>> So, that might be what you want to hear.

Doug, you got your answer. Well, um I

hope this isn't too embarrassing, but

we're going to do a cool down with our

straws.

>> Oh, yeah. With our straws.

>> Yeah. Here's your straw.

>> Damn. Doug has really taught you.

>> He gave us He gave us a cool down, and

now I only want to do it with straws.

Can you talk us through it? Yeah, we do

a few different versions and it honestly

has been a moment since I've done it,

which is hence why I was saying I need

to start doing it at night. But I think

the whole idea is go normally you're

going from here building up kind of up

your range. Now we're going to close

we're going to shut it down.

>> Okay. So

>> let's start like not too high but just

That's a little too low. [laughter]

>> Haley Williams, thank you so much for

being with us.

>> Thank you. That was lovely.

>> That felt really good.

>> It did. and I love you and I love your

voice and I love spending time with you.

>> I love you so much.

>> There was a lot of real things that just

happened there. I'm gonna really unpack

on my way home

>> and I I will send you a playlist.

>> Yes, please. Because we need to know

what's going on in Copenhagen.

[laughter]

>> You're right.

>> Because I'm I'm embarrassed about how

little I know what's going on over

there.

>> We need to get over there. And don't

think that for the rest of the week I'm

not going to dine out on the fact that

Haley Williams told me there's a lot of

music going on in Copenhagen. I'm going

to say it at least 10 times.

Tell everyone you know invite me to the

gas station. [laughter]

>> The block is hot in Copenhagen. You got

to tell them.

>> I'm going to drop that like it's

nothing. Like I'm just going to say it

so casually. I'm not even going to make

eye contact. [laughter]

>> Hands in your pockets. Cigarette

appears.

>> Okay. Friends for life. Yeah.

>> Okay. Bye.

>> Bye, guys. [laughter]

We're going to stay here, but you're

going to go.

>> Thank you so much for coming, Haley. You

are well, you're my new best friend,

whether you know it or not. Um, and uh,

we'll be friends forever. Um, it was so

fun to see you. and and uh I just want

to say Haley talked about a lot of

amazing musicians and and people that

she loves to work with. But for this

Polar Plunge, I'm just reminding

everybody about two things. The great

Kathleen Hannah who, you know, started

Bikini Kill and Latigra and is an

incredible activist and musician and um

instrumental for so many women's

careers. Such an inspiration, I know,

for me and many other people. Um, and

the Linda Lindas, a band that Kathleen

has supported as well as Haley forever.

They are just this really

super fun, great musicians, great vibe.

I got the chance to work with them in a

movie I directed called Moxy where they

were playing at the dance and um they're

just they're just so fun. And so check

out music from the Linda Lindas and

always bow down to the great Kathleen

Hannah and thank you Haley Williams

always um for all that you do. Can't

wait to see what's next. Okay, thanks.

Bye.

You've been [music] listening to Good

Hang. The executive producers for this

show are Bill Simmons, Jenna Weiss

Berman, and me, Amy Polar. The show is

produced by The Ringer and Paperkite.

[music] For The Ringer, production by

Jack Wilson, Cat Spain, Kaia McMullen,

and Aia [music] Xenerys. for Paperkite

production by Sam Green, Joel Levelvel,

and Jenna Weiss [music] Berman. Original

music by Amy Miles.

>> Was a really good [music and singing]

Hey