Transcript: Jonathan Groff on Good Hang with Amy Poehler

Hello everyone. Welcome to another

episode of Good Hang. We are so excited

to talk to Jonathan Grath. Huge fan. And

what a delight. What a just so so

talented and funny and so fun to talk

to. And we're going to talk about a lot

of things today. We're going to talk

about horses. We're going to talk about

Broadway. We're going to talk about um

making lasting friendships at work.

We're going to talk about us both

playing Dorothy in the Wizard of Oz and

the different things we brought to it.

And we're going to talk about his

Broadway smash hit, Just in Time, which

is open for a few more weeks on

Broadway. He plays Bobby Darren. It's

amazing. You have to see it. But before

we do, we're going to check in with

someone who knows our guest, who's

worked with our guest, who loves our

guest, and that person is Gracie

Lawrence. Gracie is an incredible singer

from the band Lawrence. She was uh

Connie Francis in Just in Time and we

are going to speak to her while she is

in rehearsal for another Broadway show,

All Out. Gracie, do you have a question

for our darling Jonathan?

Hi.

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What do you say?

All I ever wanted.

>> Hello, Gracie.

>> Okay, wait. Sorry. There's some people

in my dressing room that are back.

>> I I I told him that I was in the middle

of something, but it's like in there.

>> Oh my god. Listeners, John Stewart and

Abby Jacobson are flanking Gracie

Lawrence right now. We got a threeer.

>> A threeer.

>> A sentence I've dreamed of. Yeah.

>> A threefur with Amy Polar.

>> Oh my god. Hi friends.

>> Hello friends.

>> What a good surprise.

>> No. They live in my dressing room. Yeah,

we share a dress.

>> This one Amy topnotch.

>> So so tal so naturally talented.

>> The only downside honestly Amy is the

drinking. Yeah. Really, that's the part

that the only thing that's holding her

back.

>> Yeah. Yeah.

>> We don't have to talk about it.

>> Yeah. There there's actually not a

podcast today. Uh, Gracie, we're all

here because we love you and we want to

>> You know what? I thought that this

seemed strange. I was like, why are they

in my dressing room? Why am I getting a

call from Amy Polar?

>> Look at you guys. Broadway, you know,

it's just rehearsal.

>> Broadway babies.

>> Broadway babies. Guys, let's do our

thing. me.

>> Okay, we actually I could go down.

>> Okay, bye.

>> Love you.

>> Love you.

>> We're talking about and to Jonathan

Grath today who I know you love.

>> I love Jonathan Grath in such an intense

way. Wait, I need to say something to

you first.

>> Okay, wait. Okay, wait.

>> Okay. Like, wait. Like, everyone stop.

First of all, I would watch this this

podcast in my dressing room at just in

time before the show because it was like

a calming

>> warm hug. I would watch it with my

dressing roommate Erica Henning and we

were like

>> the best. We'd be like panicking before

we went on stage and we would watch this

podcast and a calm would come over us.

>> So Gracie, you are rehearsing right now

for your new Broadway show.

>> Yes.

>> Do you want to tell people what that is?

>> Yes. It's a show called All Out with our

mutual friends Abby Jacobson and John

Stewart and Eric Andre and Ike Baron

Holtz. Um, and it's

>> FYI, I'm coming to see it tonight.

>> I heard that nasty little rumor. Are you

really? Oh my god, I'm going to be so

>> And I like to wear a very loud sweater

so people can see me. And I like to make

a lot of noise.

>> I'll find you. I'll find

>> And I like to give thumbs up or thumbs

down as the show goes on.

>> That's totally fine with me. I like to

make a lot of uncomfortable eye contact

with one audience member and I think

it's going to be you tonight. Um, yeah.

And then I'm in the show with my band

Lawrence, which is my brother and I and

six of our closest friends and we're

playing our original music in this show.

It's super cool.

>> And Gracie, you are you like you you

straddle this amazing world. And one of

the things I want to talk to Jonathan

>> Well, you you straddle an amazing world.

Don't get dirty, you little little

minks. You'll watch it. Someone's

listening to this before they go on and

they want peaceful.

>> They want peace. No, totally.

>> Okay. you're a singer and you are on on

stage and you record and you act like

you you and and it's really interesting

because I think Jonathan very similarly

like when I look at his career he has

done so many things and both of you are

examples of like there's no categorizing

artists uh anymore there's no you know

there used to be this feeling that like

you could only be this kind of performer

or actor be and Jonathan is a perfect

example of that can you tell me the

first time you met him and what your

first impression of him was.

>> I met Jonathan on the first day of

rehearsal of the workshop of Just in

Time.

>> And for people who don't know, can you

just tell us what that show is?

>> Just in Time is a Broadway show. It is

directed by Alex Timbers. Um, and it is

about the life of Bobby Darren. Um, and

I play Connie Francis. And Jonathan

plays played Jonathan currently plays

Bobby Darren. I played Connie Francis

and um yeah, we met on the first day of

the workshop and I was really nervous

>> um which is like a theme of my life. Um

and Jonathan walked in and the first

thing I did in the day was sing with

him. That was like my first my first

entrance to this show. He walked in like

star of the show. Like he was just such

a star from the second he walked in. And

it was like

>> I got the right entrance from him. I was

like watching him walk and he put his

binder down and then he sat down next to

me and it was kind of like and then he

just

>> did the did the Jonathan Gra thing of

like making really intense beautiful eye

contact with you.

>> Perfect.

>> Which you'll experience in the

>> Can't wait. He's so charming. As far as

his actual like big uh width and breadth

of talent, what what do you think makes

him such a special performer? I do think

he's like one of the greats, like one of

the greatest performers of all time. He

reminds me of the kind of performer

that,

you know, is of a different era. He

reminds me of Bobby Darren. Like he is

this kind of

performer that can do it all and is like

so magnetic and so charming.

>> Yeah.

>> His magic trick as a performer is making

people feel so at ease and so

comfortable and like they know him

immediately. And even when he's playing

bizarre weirdos, it's like you still

feel really comfortable around him and

you want to he's like the most watchable

person I've ever met ever on stage like

>> Yes.

>> And and his the eye contact thing

because I will tend to be like, you

know, like if someone's looking at me

too long, I'm like, "What?" He will lock

the [ __ ] in like he will he's going to

do that.

>> Okay. He is also like a lover of like

shenaniganry and like [ __ ] on stage.

Like he will really

I don't know how he knows the right

moment to do the things but like somehow

he will violently tickle me on stage

consensually. And I'll have friends at

the show and I'll be like, did you guys

notice when Jonathan just like fully in

the middle of the scene was like and

they'll be like, "No, I didn't catch

that." And I'm like, "How does he like

know? He just really knows."

>> He has a playful energy that's a tiny

bit of um I mean I I imagine when you

just do show after show after show, you

got to keep it fresh.

>> Yeah.

>> Um Okay. So, I asked my Zoom guests to

give me a question for my guest. I I

thought of a million questions um

because he is in some ways so anomalous.

Um but given that I'm technically a new

friend of his, even though I feel I know

him very well, um I've noticed in this

year that I've never seen him

frazzled

or anxious or nervous. And he's had so

many occasions where he like objectively

should be um like leading a show, you

know, doing huge interviews, going to

the Tony's, performing three times at

the Tony's. He is like Yoda like like he

is so calm. And when I'm nervous, he

always turns to me after I say like, I'm

feeling kind of nervous. He was like,

really? Huh? like he doesn't understand

that. Um, and I'm wondering

why isn't he more scared of things?

When did he has he always been this way?

Like did I meet him in a time in his

life where he just really has his [ __ ]

together or has he always been extremely

calm? Like when he was auditioning for

things back in the day, was he like

going in the room shaky or was he like

like so calm and like what if anything

scares him now? Little [ __ ]

Like I I'm annoyed. It's crazy.

>> Yeah, that's that's a great great

question because you're absolutely

right. He you never catch him working

too hard, but he's the hardest worker

and he's makes things I mean that's to

your point about like we feel like we

know him. He also makes things feel

accessible to us like I think great

artists do. They just they don't over

complicate things.

>> No, he's not tortured.

>> No, he's not. That's why I love him

because he's such a good example in my

opinion of the more talented you are,

the easier you are to work with. Period.

The end.

>> Again, there are the few eccentric

geniuses, but for the most part, if

you're not coming from a fear-based

place,

>> it's such a pleasure to work together

with someone who's so talented. So, h

>> yeah.

>> Well, Gracie, that's a really really

good question and I I think he's really

good. Really great. I mean, I cannot

thank you enough for taking what I'm

sure is your this is probably your

downtime, your eating time, your looking

at your phone time before we have to go

back out there.

>> I'm I'm sure they're just I'm supposed

to be rehearsing something, but Harris,

I'm here.

>> Thank you so much. Such a pleasure to

meet you. Take care. Bye.

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>> Jonathan, I'm very, very excited that

you're here.

>> I'm very excited to be here.

>> I thank you for doing this. You know,

when we started the show, we were like,

who? We just like thought about people

that we wanted to talk to that would be

good hangs and you are definitely

someone that we really wanted to talk

to.

>> I am so honored. I'm so honored.

>> Thank you. And have we ever met?

>> No, this is our first time.

>> This is our first time meeting. I mean,

I'm sure you get this a lot, but I do

feel like I've met you.

>> Same. Same. I know. I lifted you up.

It's like

>> it was an off people. It was off camera,

but when when you came in, we hugged and

you lifted me up, which I really

enjoyed. Yeah.

>> I mean, I I don't always love being

lifted up,

>> but I really liked when you did it. And

also, people should know you're very

jacked.

>> Oh my god. Thank you. I'll take it.

>> Your arms are really strong.

>> I'll take it.

>> My friend Susie, every time I would see

her, I would lift her up and then she

was like, "Jonathan,

please stop lifting me. I don't I don't

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

>> Well, when you're like a short person

sometimes like

>> this was her point. In improv, you got

lifted up a lot. Which, by the way, I'm

sure there's many women out there that

are like, "Oh, you got lifted up a lot."

Good thing to complain about.

>> But I, you know, I get it though.

There's like assumptions made. I lifted

you.

>> No, it was nice.

>> And then I felt like, oh no, did I just

assume?

>> No. Everything. I loved everything about

it. I loved everything about it. Thank

God. It was exciting. That was our first

meeting. Lifted you.

>> I know. And and I'm talking to you

today. talking to you today because you

have your show tonight.

>> Yes.

>> And it's few literally you're going to

be in on stage in a few hours.

>> Yeah. Yeah.

>> And I have so much I want to talk to you

about today. I I but but what one thing

I realiz is that in you've done so many

things so well. It's going to be hard to

talk about all of them.

But most of your life, your job, the

hardest part of your day is at the end

of your day. like what what is it like

to have a full day waiting for your

hardest part of the day to start?

>> That is such a great question, Amy. And

I

>> Thank you.

>> And I've never thought about it like

that before.

>> I used to have a version of that with

SNL, right? But but but a that was once

a week was the actual performance. The

rest of the time was like a split like,

you know, midday to night. But

>> it may be the most challenging part of

my day, but it's also the most joyful

part of my day that getting out there

and getting to do it,

it's like I'm like a kid with the high

school play.

>> That's awesome.

>> Yeah, I get amped and then I sleep very

hard at night. So, I think maybe I'm

naturally a night person.

>> Before we get into your life, I need to

get into sleep because it's my favorite

thing to talk about. What time do you go

to bed?

Okay. So, usually the show I'm

>> not going to like this.

>> I'm already worried. But the show is

over at what? 10 if you're lucky.

>> Show over at 10:30.

>> Oh god.

>> And then often times part of the fun is

like having people backstage.

>> Nightmare.

>> True nightmare.

>> And then I'll talk to people and hang

for a bit in the dressing room. I'll get

on my bicycle.

>> You bike home. Yep.

>> Should people know that?

>> We could cut that.

>> Don't follow me.

>> Suddenly I'm being followed by people on

bikes.

>> That's incredible.

>> Yeah. I bike I bike to and from the

theater. I arrive on a bike usually.

>> That's great.

>> And then I'm I'm in bed probably by like

12:30. 12:30 or 1.

>> Okay. I like that.

>> Yeah. I'll go home. I'll eat something.

I'll watch some YouTubes.

>> Yeah. And then I'll I I do feel when I

walk in my apartment

like I start to go like

>> Mhm. like

>> I'm powering down. I'm dying. Yeah. And

then I fall asleep and I

>> are Are you I'm a I'm a very hard

sleeper.

>> I I I used to be a really really hard

sleeper. I'm I'm getting a little

lighter as I get older. But yeah, I I'm

with you. I'm not I don't get up in the

middle of I can go down. I can go down.

>> I go down. You go down.

>> And then what time is morning time?

>> Is it 10:00 a.m. or is it 9:00 a.m.?

>> It's 10:00 a.m. How did you know it was

10:00 a.m.?

>> Well, because the 1:00 a.m. bedtime is

usually like a 10:00 a.m. wake up.

>> Yeah. Yeah. That's the natural that's

the natural wake up.

>> 10:00 a.m.

>> Yeah.

>> So, we're we're talking to you right now

at like basically your lunchtime.

>> That's exactly right. I'm having this

coffee.

>> Black coffee for lunch. I'm having black

coffee.

>> And what is this like? What time are you

going to go to bed tonight? We're going

to finish this. I actually I'm already

stressed about the fact I have to go

have to I have the lucky privilege of

going to a show tonight.

I'm going to a show and I'm already

stressed about the fact that I am not

going to be

>> in bed.

>> In bed. I love bedtime. Ideally for me,

>> you couldn't go to a matinea.

>> I know. I I I blew it. I love the mat.

>> Yeah, right. Cuz then you can go

straight to bed.

>> And when I'm there, I'm so happy. But

I'm literally counting the minutes till

I can go to sleep. Um, okay. But what I

wanted to say, Jonathan, I'm now I'm

starting.

>> Okay. Okay.

>> OKAY.

>> You got the glasses on.

>> Well, because we kind of wrote it down

because you are such a nice boy. You are

a good nice boy. You to me are the

embodiment of someone who is deeply

deeply open and and and a good caring

nice person and also crushing it and

ambitious and like like ambition with a

side of you know compassion basically.

You don't have to be a jerk.

>> I love that you're saying that too.

Yeah. Because often times ambition is

seen as like a negative thing or like a

cutthroat thing that you have to like

>> push people aside in order to do your

thing. But we're all just in our own

>> on our own little like track and field

lane.

>> Yes, that's right. You're competing with

yourself.

>> Exactly.

>> And that the idea that if like a rise,

you know, what is it? A rising a rising

boat.

>> All boats rise.

>> Yeah. It's not that

>> all boats rise.

>> But isn't it a rising tide? No.

>> A rising tide rises all the boats.

>> Really?

>> A rising tide lifts all boat

>> lifts all boats.

>> But that

>> a rising tide.

>> That's your warm up for tonight. A

rising tide lifts all boats.

>> A rising tide lifts all boats. It does.

>> A rising tide lifts all boats.

>> That was good. You matched my That was

perfect.

>> Thank you. Um but uh it's true. It's

true. like that that there's this, you

know, you can decide and I feel like I

feel like not knowing you but knowing so

many people who love and love working

with you. I feel like that is you and so

congratulations on that. I have no

question. I just wanted to say that

about you right back at you.

>> And you have done so much. You've done

musicals. You've done television. You've

done film. You're on Broadway right now.

You uh you were in Spring Awakening, of

course. You were in Hamilton. You were

in Glee. You were in Mine Hunter. You

like you you're Kristoff and Frozen. You

do so many things so well. Um, but

through it all, through it all, I feel

the sense from you of exactly what you

we started this conversation with, which

is like there's still just like a lot of

joy in getting to do what you get to do.

>> Yeah. Yeah.

>> And if and like you hold on to that,

you're grateful for it. You're in the

moment.

>> Yes. Yes.

>> Yes. It's

>> work for it and you like you find those

people. I mean, you you're the queen of

this of like finding those people that

you love and love to make things with.

And I feel like as time goes by, I just

turned 40 last year. I can feel myself

like getting magnetized to those people

later in life of like h like working

with Dan Radcliffe on Merrily. He like

that was the that was I think the first

time I was like oh I've really met my

match here because this guy

loves to do this so profoundly. And we

formed a lifelong friendship with our

friend Lindsay. really everyone in that

company, but like Dan Dan was like sick

and gripping me. Like he like had to be

out. There was like a need

>> in him that I really related to. And I'm

finding like as time goes by and you get

older, like there's such a joy in the

people that we started out with, the

ones that really want to be here are

still here.

>> Yes.

>> It's such a cool thing. And Dan

Radcliffe Radcliffe is an example of

this and you are which is also you want

longevity in the business. You want to

work a long time if you like it's a it's

the long game.

>> It's the long

>> playing the long game and

>> and I mean I can't wait to talk to you

about Merrily. It It's such an

incredible

piece of art. It's so deep. I can only

imagine what it must have been like to

be approaching 40 and winning a Tony for

a piece that is all about the circular

feeling of life and like having it in

real time and and so before we get there

>> we're going to we're going to get there.

But I I am so enamored and and moved by

your by little Jonathan on the horse

farm like your horses.

>> You grew up in Lancaster, Pennsylvania.

>> Yes. Yeah.

>> Your dad was a horse trainer.

>> Yep. Still is.

>> Is

>> Yeah.

>> And do you ride horses and do you like

horses?

>> Uhoh. Is this controversial?

>> It's not controversial. I So he did he

does um harness racing. So it's like the

cart behind the horse like you're

sitting in the cart with the whip.

>> Oh yeah.

>> And so he

>> is that are you in a like a large was

that like a Menanite um or

>> Yeah. My dad is his whole family is

Menanite.

>> Wow.

>> My grandfather was a Menanite preacher.

Um and he kind of like was expected to

take over the dairy farm and cuz he was

the oldest son but didn't wasn't into

cows and so pivoted to horses and got

really into horse racing and then my mom

was raised Methodist and so started

going to the Methodist church because

the Menanites were not super into the

gambling aspect of his career.

>> Interesting.

>> Um he wasn't shunned or anything but

just Yeah.

And uh so yeah, growing up I would play

pretend on the horse farm with my

brother, but my brother and I my brother

David and I were both

>> petrified of the horses cuz they're

they're so scary.

>> I got So So I am I'm afraid of horses.

>> Okay.

>> Like they scare me. I respect them.

They're beautiful, but I don't I don't

mess around with horses.

>> Yeah. Then that's really wise. I feel

like when you know that you're really

tapping into the empathy of the horse

because like

>> Yes. I don't want to startle them.

>> Yes.

>> And I'm a little nervous. I don't want

to make them nervous.

>> Yes.

>> And there are some people that are just

so so good with them. And I I feel like

I feel to horses like people who who

don't want to have children feel towards

children. Yeah. Which is like I think

that's great for you.

>> Yes. Not my journey.

>> And I want people who want to ride

horses to ride horses. Not my journey.

>> Exactly.

>> They're so tall. Their eyes are so Their

mouths are enormous.

>> Enormous. And they like Yeah. Yes.

>> Yeah.

>> They don't make that sound.

>> I was nervous like I I we like I was

shoveling the [ __ ] in the stalls with

the horses also. So you can imagine not

loving and like the like sort of like

moving around the horse to like shovel

it [ __ ] into the thing. I was like it

was not Yeah.

>> That's funny. Like that's like not going

into the family business is not liking

horses.

>> Yes. I was blasting Britney Spears and

Steven Sonheim on the like on the tape

player in the barn shoveling the

horseshit being like this I don't fit

here.

>> I love that. I loved your Tony speech

when you thanked your family and your

brother, your parents like for like

letting you just be you in like they

really did that, right? You were you

were exactly that singing and dressing

up and getting to do stuff and everybody

was like that's

>> that's our Jonathan.

>> We have this VHS of my of me dressed as

Mary Poppins. I was three and my mom and

my dad like they I had lipstick and a

carpet bag and a hat and a dress and

we're on my grandfather's Menanite farm

Wade and I'm like with the with the

carpet bag like and in the background

you can hear him going Mary.

Oh Mary,

not even really clocking the gay joke

that he's making by calling me Mary but

>> which then became a very successful

Broadway show.

>> Exactly. And that's where that's where

Cole got the idea.

>> Cole got the idea.

>> Oh my god. Totally. Yeah. Yeah.

>> And who was saying that? Was your dad

saying that?

>> My Menanite grandfather preacher Wade.

>> Oh, Wade.

>> So incredible. They let me They I think

if they had like equated putting this

young boy in a gown

may open up homosexuality in him. It's

like an on-ramp to gayness. They may not

have done it, but this was like before

the internet and like they they just

beautifully allowed me to to

>> so great

>> fly my freak flag.

>> Yes. And I hear did you play um Dorothy

in the Wizard of Oz? I I did as well.

>> What age did you play Dorothy?

>> At four.

>> What did you bring to the role? How did

you how did you see her?

>> At four. I brought a lot. There's also

video of that. I brought a lot of um

>> I brought a real like a I was screaming

a lot.

>> Yeah.

>> And it's a lot OF ME GOING LIKE

>> CUZ OF THE TORNADO.

>> YEAH.

>> YEAH.

>> YES.

>> You were playing the tornado.

>> Yeah. I was like I was very tornado

forward in my interpretation.

>> Interesting. You So you were interested

in the the like the trauma before the

the yellow brick was

>> Yes. I held that like that I carried

through. Yeah. M what was your on?

>> Thank you for asking. I I was in fourth

grade and I was really in I was in

fourth grade a little older, a little

wiser. I knew we were going to be okay,

I think.

>> But I was really interested in the like

the follow me aspect. I was very much

like come on over here. Come on. Like

very very into like

>> leading lady

>> follow the like follow the yellow brick

road. Like let's go. The the let's go of

Dorothy. like the I love the skipping

and the running around and just like the

journey part. I was really into that

part and the tornado

I just um I just went internal. I just

really small.

>> You were more you were more like the

phoenix rising from the ashes. You were

like leading everyone somewhere.

>> It was just in my eyes. The tornado was

in your eyes.

>> Yeah. It was like a quick look like

blink and you miss it.

>> I went, "What was that?

>> Wait, is she okay?" But then immediately

you were leading us. Yeah. Oh, it's so

much smarter.

>> [ __ ]

>> Lions and tigers and bears.

>> Oh my.

>> Okay. But so then you're on the you're

on the farm. You're scared of horses.

You're singing.

>> What makes you you you're going to go to

college and then you GET A PART?

IT REALLY IS as you describe. You're on

the farm. You're with the horses. You're

singing. What?

>> What is going to happen? When I listen

to the original cast recording of

Company, I still smell horse.

>> I still have the sense memory of

smelling listening to it in the bar.

>> It smells like Yeah, it smells like like

um like the pile of manure that we would

make from the stall.

>> How did you get those records? Like who

to who how did you find out about what

was the what was the musical that made

you fall in love? Was it the Hor

is even funny or not? I can't believe I

haven't thought about this Amy in so

long. When you say record, I went to the

Lancaster Public Library

>> and got the record LP. I mean, it's not

like this was like the ' 60s. This was

like 1992. But I I got the

>> the the LP record of Ethel Murman

singing uh Annie Get Your Gun.

>> Wow.

>> And I would play the record of Annie Get

Your Gun over and over again. And we had

a record player in my house growing up

and like a giant computer, you know,

remember like the early computers? and

like a hand thing that was like doing

the video games and I would be playing a

like very basic video game and blasting

Ethel Murman singing. Um,

>> do you remember h what like a young how

a young boy discovered Ethel Murman?

It's amazing

who how did you find out about her?

They took us to see the high school play

of Annie Get Your Gun

>> and I was like when it got to

intermission

>> Yeah.

>> and they were like, "Okay, now we're

going to go to the bathroom and then

we're going to come back." I was like,

"There's more

>> after that." There's I We're going to

come back and it's going to happen

again. There's going to be more story. I

was so excited.

>> Did you ever go into New York when you

were a kid and see a show?

>> Yeah, I went. That was the And you get

your gun moment happened when I was in

like fourth grade and that's when I went

to the library then and got the record

and was obsessed. And then my my mom

started taking me on bus trips to see

Broadway shows and that was like fifth

grade, sixth grade,

>> middle school. Then I started going

>> What did you see back then?

>> I saw Beauty and the Beast. I saw

Greece. I saw Annie Get Your Gun with

Bernardet Peters, which I was like

losing my mind for. Um, I saw in high

school I saw Thoroughly Modern Millie

six times. Obsessed.

>> You were obsessed with Sutton Foster.

>> Yeah. Obsessed.

Obsessed with her. Yeah.

>> What was it about her that you loved?

>> She would like

>> to you.

>> She on stage. Well, on stage is a couple

of things. She would like be right here.

>> Mhm. There was a level of presence about

her

>> that was so magnetic and I couldn't

>> like

stop looking at her when she wasn't

speaking in scenes. I would be staring

at Sutton because she felt so alive.

>> And then she had been the understudy in

that show out of town and replaced and

kind of was like pushed out into the

front um to take on that role in which

she was like 28 years old. And there was

almost like like when it's really hot um

when it's really hot and you're driving

and you see those waves of heat coming

off the road.

>> You know that when you're like in the

car and you're like wo it's so hot that

you can see the air is like

>> that was what was coming off of her body

>> when I when I in my experience and my

memory of watching her and

>> it was like heat was coming off of her.

>> And you were still in high school. You

would you did you know you were going to

be an actor? Did you know did you have a

sense that you were going to move to New

York and be an actor at that point?

>> Yeah, once I was in high school there

there was two community theaters in my

hometown. The Fulton Theater and the

Effort of Performing Arts Center.

They're both still there.

>> And uh at the Fulton Theater, I was

meeting actors that they hired from New

York to play the leads.

>> Oh wow.

>> And I would like I was obsessed with all

of them. One of them is in Just in Time.

>> Whoa. this a woman named Terry Kelly who

was the lead of the show in 2001 at the

Fulton is now one of our amazing swings

in just in time. So we have a full

circle moment there. But

>> yeah, I I started to dream about moving

to New York. That's when I learned that

you could go to open calls

>> and I did that my senior year of high

school. I went to like an open call for

the Son of Music tour

>> and got it and went on the road and then

moved to New York.

>> And we were you you basically told your

parents I'm not going to college. They

really they said if you want to go to

college we will find a way to pay for

this for you

>> but it's so expensive and like are you

sure you want to major in theater?

>> Yeah

>> cuz what's that going to get you at the

end of 4 years all this money and I was

like I it's my passion. It's what I want

to do. And my dad I remember like a late

night with my dad sitting in his chair

and he was like

if this is really what you want to do

we'll figure it out. And I was like,

"Okay, thanks, Dad." But then I went to

New York and auditioned for this tour

and got it. And I went on the road and I

deferred my admission from college

>> and I made $10,000 in the year of

working on this non-union tour. Carnegie

Melon at that time was $40,000 a year.

That's where I deferred my admission.

>> And I was like, I'll never be able to

pay

>> Mhm.

>> this off.

>> Mhm.

>> And my parents were like, right,

>> take your money, go to New York. Yeah.

>> See if it works out. If it doesn't work

out,

>> come back and go to college for

something else. So, that was the plan.

>> And then 21 years old, you get nominated

for a Tony. 21. I mean, Spring

Awakening.

I'm feeling Dorothy. I'M FEELING

DOROTHY. I MEAN, that musical. I saw you

in that musical. I saw The Ridge.

>> A Come on. So amazing. So I mean an

original musical that's so successful

that that age.

>> I mean I don't I guess my question to

you is like now you've got some time

right now and you and you did the

documentary. You produced a documentary.

>> You really know your stuff, Amy.

>> I try my best.

>> Such a hard worker.

>> But I mean you're you're like looping

back around it now. So, you've got now

you've been able to look back like

looking back now at that at that boy.

>> Like what what do you take away from

that moment now? Like with distance and

time, what are you so grateful for about

that moment?

>> Oh my god. Um

it was like getting picked up and put

somewhere else. It was like the claw

coming and just like

>> that's a good way to think about it

>> of it was like

>> thoroughly modern Millie which I had

seen six times. The director of Spring

Awakening is Michael Mayer the director

of Thoroughly Modern Millie. Wow.

>> Like I I I I

it was it was a combination of feeling

like I got picked up and put somewhere

and I remember auditioning for it.

And I I remember calling my dad on the

phone the the night before the call back

and saying,

"I can't do this right now, but I know

that I could do it if they gave me the

chance." Like

>> why why the can't why why were you

thinking you couldn't do it? cuz I knew

I I I like my talent was not

>> I just like I I didn't really have the

proper

like gifts like this my singing was I

didn't have my singing together but I

had this like primal thing down in my

like gut

>> that was like I have to play this role

>> and they let me do it and it was like

>> so then this thing in me got to like

it's like those opportunities like you

you get that opportunity And especially

with theater because

>> it's almost religious because you're

repeating

>> and when you repeat things over and over

again, it can change you from the inside

out. Uh, and I've it like

like um made me the the it like taught

me how to act and taught me how to sing.

And there was and I was in the closet

during that whole show

>> and I had my roommate Cody that was my

boyfriend.

>> And when I left that show, I came out of

the closet a month later because this

this like rebel that was this character,

this person that didn't care, didn't let

the world define him. This was what I

was playing. Like you said, um I'm a

people pleaser. I'm a I'm like like

prioritizing niceness, prioritizing like

making sure everybody feels good.

>> Yeah.

>> And coming out felt like that would

create a dissonance

>> and I it was really hard for me to do

that.

>> Yeah.

>> And that playing the role in that show

allowed me to grow the muscle to be able

to do that.

>> So cool.

>> So cool.

>> And you you you put that in such a

beautiful way. I think people often

underestimate that sometimes the

struggle to live authentically

doesn't have as much to do with how you

feel about yourself as it does in the

worry of how it will change the

temperature in the room. Like how it

will change the dynamic in the family,

how it will make other people feel. It's

often like

>> told through like a inner struggle when

sometimes the struggle is really about

how will other people change.

>> Like how will they feel? Yes. And and

were your how how did your family feel?

How did they how did were they surprised

>> cut to

me screaming as a way was like well

>> my men and her grandmother was like who

is that little girl in the in the in the

Wizard of Oz for they're like that was

Jonathan. It was

>> were they were they surprised? I mean

like

>> my dad was surprised. My brother was

surpris my I told my brother first

>> that's nice

>> and he was like what

>> he was surprised

>> which like yeah my mom said that she

kind of knew

>> it was it was like complicated and and

cut to like

>> whatever two or three Christmases later

and they're handing presents to my

boyfriend that's home for the holidays.

So it like

>> very quickly it took a minute for them

to digest it all.

>> Sure.

>> And then ultimately it's been great.

>> Yeah. Amazing. So so much happening in

your 20s. Like so much. And then you go

on Glee, which is this insanely popular

show

>> with your buddy Leah and like you just

>> you're just

>> you're just everything is happening

really fast. Yeah,

>> it feels like that when I look at your

stuff like that that your 20's is just

like things are really moving and

chugging along and you're just working

like crazy and being like a New York

kid.

>> Yeah.

>> Yeah. Because you have a quality about

you that's very young.

>> You've been told that, I'm sure.

>> I feel it. Yeah. I feel

eternally young in a certain way. I'm

I'm very like excitable.

>> Do you have an age you feel like you

are? Like do you know what I mean? Like

that you relate to? Right now I feel

about 15.

>> Yeah. I feel I

>> You're just picking people up left and

right.

>> I'm picking you up drinking black.

>> I feel like I feel like we're on the

like high school news. Like I did like

the high school news.

>> Remember like

>> Good morning everyone. It is December

16th.

>> Very high school news. I'm having like a

I'm having a hot flash right now.

>> Yeah. It's giving high school news

station.

>> Very high school. Yeah. We're on the

morning announcements.

>> We would both of us would have

definitely done morning announcements

>> for

>> my dream.

>> Sure.

>> My dream. I would have had a big crush

on you and people would like

>> I would have been just following your

Dorothy leads

>> and people would have been like Jonathan

does not have a crush on you. Okay.

You're not his type. Um

like I don't know. I think I can get

him. I think I can win him over.

>> Oh yeah. would have been totally us on

the news.

>> Then you're on Looking, which is this

first show on HBO to

feature a gay man as the lead. Is that

real?

>> Is that real? Is that right?

>> I don't know. I saw it on the internet,

but who knows? We We don't have We don't

have time to figure that out. But

incredible. Like, but that's a big jump

to be coming out in a few years later

playing like a really fully realized,

sophisticated single man looking for

love. That's a big jump. Yeah, it was it

was like I I um I'm really riding the

wave here of of life and of of progress.

And when they they initially like send

me that audition, I said no. I felt um

scared to be gay on a TV show. One thing

to be out publicly and another thing to

be like

like eating ass on TV

>> only in film.

It's like I'm gay and then and then it's

like okay gruff like we get it like to

see me in different positions and like

>> but I mean you actually bring up a

really good

>> you bring up a good point which is it's

it's very hard to do intimate scenes no

matter what to be

>> but it's funny cuz

>> you didn't care.

>> No, in Spring Awakening I was like let's

go.

>> It's true. You already did that. You

already ate ass.

in a different way.

>> In a different way, I felt a kind of

like um safety with women

>> uh because they didn't feel like there

was as much at stake and we could really

like go for it. It felt like

>> it in some ways like it felt like

>> back then like like what I wished I was

like like wishing I wasn't gay, wishing

I was straight and it was like this is

who I wish I could be. It felt like

dreaming it like like changing who I was

like a fantasy of what I wished I could

be.

>> But then when they send me these scripts

and it's

actually how I am, it's it then does

become a little bit scary.

>> But I'd seen Andrew Hag when he became

attached as the director. I'd seen his

film Weekend at the IFC on 6th Avenue

and I was like a wreck like crying in

that movie theater because I'd never

seen something that felt so real.

>> And so when he became attached as the

director then I was like no-brainer.

Yes, I want to do this. I want to work

with this man. And that the way that he

tells those stories meant meant so much

to me in that movie and I want to do

this with him. But at the audition,

I was shaking and I felt sort of like

sudden when I'm talking about the heat

coming off of the body. My whole body

went hot and I went I blush. I was like

blushing and it was like spring

awakening a another role that I was like

almost like a ring of fire birth into a

new version of self like therapy

>> like a sematic exorcism and you knew it

was right because you were feeling it so

big.

>> And they asked me to be in the in the

the to be the grand marshall of the gay

pride parade. I told my parents when I

came out like 5 years before. I was

like, "Hi. Uh, so Cody is not my

roommate. That Cody's my boyfriend and

I'm gay, but like I'm not going to like

be in a parade."

That's what I said when I came out. I

was so still full of shame. I was like,

I'm not but listen like I'm not holding

the flag. I'm not like the cut scene

eating ass on television. And then

ultimately

on the grand marshalling the the New

York Pride parade like with a sash, a

rainbow sash literally like elbow elbow

wrist wrists.

And I felt scared. I I still felt scared

back then. I I was like this feels like

right. It feels like the right thing to

do. But I'm LIKE

>> DOROTHY. You were like Dorothy

>> screaming as I'm getting pushed. what

doesn't this is an amazing theme I'm

realizing about you which is really

amazing is that you and I I think it may

also just come from like familial

unconditional love which I'm learning

more and more like when artists have it

they can take big chances you you took

you take a lot of chances when you're

like holy [ __ ]

>> yes

>> you do you do it though you do it

>> yes I think I'm a little drawn to it

>> I must be like magnetized to it and like

you said unconditional love I think

you're Right. There's a little bit of a

thing where like you I'll speak for

myself too coming from that background

where like I I don't want to bypass the

fact that there's a safety element that

I had in my in my youth that allows me

to do that. Now,

>> talk about it, Amy.

>> Because I like the I I I I think that

there's

>> you cannot discount that feeling that if

you had a safe home

>> in your professional life or your

creative life, you you just feel

sometimes like emboldened to take these

chances when they're given to you. And

that's definitely what you did because

it is

>> it is like you're just your career is

just like, "Yeah, let's try this. Let's

do this." And then looking happens and

then it it gets cancelled. Bummer. But

not really A BUMMER

because all of a sudden,

guess who's available for Hamilton?

Guess who's tech a veil for Hamilton?

>> Jonathan Grath. Another fear factor

thing though of like Brian Darcy James

originated that role

and then he his show something rotten

got fasttracked to Broadway unexpected

while they were in rehearsal for the

public theater

>> and I get a text from Lynn

>> who I had become friends with through

the years being like hey Brian has to

bail right after opening will you come

in off Broadway and do this for 2 months

>> um for the last two months of the off

Broadway run and he was like it's

basically just one song and it's on a

lot of moves and you and you'll be

great. And I was like, "Okay."

>> Wow.

>> And I and I said yes without hearing it,

knowing anything about it. They sent me

the song. I learned the song from like a

piano thing. And then I I saw it and

went in 2 days later. I was in LA at the

time.

>> And so I didn't know I had to have a

British accent.

>> And did you ever did you ever

>> No, I'm kidding.

>> Exactly. I mean, ACCENT IS PERFECT.

>> NO, but yes. drag me. But you're right.

No, I'm not dragging.

>> Not dragging. It's its own. It's its own

like your accent is its own. It's

delicious. When you say bake,

you'll be bake.

It's incredible.

>> Where did you come up with that accent?

>> When I went on the first day off

Broadway, it looked like I had won a

contest to be in Hamilton because I had

no sense of character. I had no They

were like, "You have to do like a

British accent." I was like, "But what?"

Every like everyone's black. Like I

don't like why I have to do a British

accent.

>> No one. You're right. No one's

historically accurate. Except

>> I have to do a British accent. And then

I saw it and I was like, "Oh, I get it.

I'm like the one thing." Okay.

>> Inc. It's And your the choice of your

voice is in your voice is incredible in

it. I love your accent.

>> So then Thank you. So then I I like Pipa

was like you could there's this the

woman at Giuliard that can help you. So

she's

I was like what I but here's the lesson

I learned too when I went on and I had

no character at all. I had no accent. I

was just trying to remember the words

and the notes and then walk off. It was

like they put me in a King thing and I

walked out there and I did what I could

remember and then they pulled me off.

>> But the song killed.

>> I mean one could even say stole the

show. But I I was like, I don't have to

do anything. I came out here, I have no

idea what I'm doing. Such a funny song.

This writing

>> Yes.

>> is so genius.

>> And the the device, sorry to interrupt,

the device of you being the lover, the

the the jilted lover saying you'll be

back is such a funny device for

>> It's so surprising.

>> It is. It's so funny.

>> It's like the first time people aren't

rapping. So the all the white people in

the audience are like, "Oh,

>> they're like, "Now this is how I

remember this is how I remember

Broadway."

>> Right.

>> It's It's so true. There's It's And it

is this great record scratch moment

>> in the show, which you know, look, we

don't we could talk forever about

Hamilton. is beyond genius in every way.

But it is you're it is so funny because

it reminds you for just a second of how

things used to be

>> vocally, lyrically, stylistically.

>> Yes. On so many levels. Yes. It's

hitting on so many levels. And that like

lesson of like, oh, I have no idea what

I'm doing, but this song is killing was

then when I was when then for the next

two months when I started to learn the

the very specific upper whatever accent

and I was watching all the also so

different than Brian RC James. I was

watching these clips of Barbara

Streryand uh um from her TV special My

Name is Barbara and I was watching her

>> come out on stage and like basically

like [ __ ] herself with her own voice

like like so so enjoy so small but like

>> enjoying every little I was like okay

and then I started to build the

character but it was I'd never built a

character in front of an audience in a

show before. Wow.

>> And so that was also a bit of like

getting pushed out there

>> and because the show is so great, I was

able to just play catchup because you

can be completely um

unaware of what you're doing, but sing

that song and it nails it.

>> And you're right. You were like seducing

us. You're very seductive and you're

very laconic as that character as like

>> talking about laconic. Tell me that.

>> I believe it means

sleepy like like just like not thirsty.

>> I have so many questions about backstage

>> at Hamilton.

>> Okay. Yeah.

>> Number one, were you allowed to come

late?

>> Did I come late or was I allowed to

come?

>> Because you were you had about an hour

before you were on, right? I had no I

was on in the first like 20 minutes, 25

minutes

>> and then you have a big break. Yeah. How

long? An hour.

>> Oh my god. So much time.

>> What do you do during that time?

>> Such a good question. Okay, so Bobby

Darren, I am off stage for 45 seconds in

the in the whatever two plus hour thing.

>> And this is my preferred I love being

out there. When we walked into the

dressing room at the Richard Rogers in

tech for Hamilton and Lynn and I were

sharing a dressing room space, I was

like whatever. Adena Menzel had done the

show right before if then. And I was my

dressing room was Adena's waiting room

and it was like a little closet

and I was like, "Oh, this is where I

live.

>> I'm on stage for 9 minutes, but this is

where I live." And I started to get

claustrophobic when I walked in of like,

"What am I going to do?

back here. Um,

and I read so many books.

>> You couldn't leave the building.

>> Leave. No, cuz you're in the white wig.

>> And the

>> You never ran out to get something and

took the wig off.

>> I never ran out to get something.

>> A good boy.

>> I That's so like because those you did a

lot of performances.

>> Yeah.

>> And I used to think about you backstage

and be like, what are what's he doing

back there? I ended up really learning

how to embrace well I would have

visitations from the cast so that there

would be like nightly visitations which

was great and kind of like

>> free hang time which was it was like we

I could have like done this and like we

could have done

>> announcements done morning

announcements.

>> It really feels like we're on the

morning announcements. Uh

>> but then I started reading all the books

that I wanted to read. I started to just

like boom boom boom boom knock through

them all and it became a very productive

time.

>> Cool. Very cool.

>> Yeah.

>> And then you had to come back out.

>> Mhm.

>> So that must have also been like Did you

ever miss a

>> queue? It's hard.

>> I can't believe I never missed a queue.

>> I know cuz it's hard when you I mean I

know you work with total professionals

who will make sure that you don't miss a

queue. I'm sure like all the stage

managers are like, "Um, yeah, you didn't

miss a queue cuz I told you." Exactly.

>> 10 minutes, baby. Exactly. But the but

the when you have that long stretch,

it's hard to get. It's just like having

one or two lines in a sketch, like you

really can screw it up.

>> Yeah. Right. It's like a little sprint.

And I also find always having one or two

lines to me is the hardest thing. Do you

find that? Like coming in killing and

leaving cold. Coming in cold.

>> Yes. I would have five Altoids in my

mouth when I came on stage because it

was like to open up my

>> Is that what they open up your

>> Yeah, that's I've now moved on to um

sugarfree black cherry halls. I have one

of those in my mouth for the entire show

since I did Little Shop in 2019. That's

my new thing. But in um

>> You're not afraid it's going to pop out

or shoot out?

>> You know, it's never shot out until like

5 days ago.

>> It did. popped out during Splishplash

and I was like I lost a tooth. Uh but

the

it bounced into the audience.

>> That's a really good Broadway story. It

popped out during Splishplash and it's

like thank god it was just your

>> bang bang. I saw the whole gang.

>> It came right out and went.

>> It's like why did he get fired? It

popped out during splish splash and it

wasn't supposed to.

>> I mean there popped it out. Yeah, he

popped it out during split.

>> I mean, I'm projecting because I used I

used to have a ton I don't know if you

did you ever have nightmares when have

you ever had Broadway nightmares where

you miss you're late or um like a stress

dream.

>> Oh yeah, I used to have stress dreams

all the time that there was a there was

like a staircase at SNL where you had to

kind of run down to get to to the studio

that I was running down and I was

hearing my cue. Oh, that's going to give

me nightmares tonight.

>> Yeah, but that I was missing a queue.

Missing a queue.

>> And those those used to give me like to

And to add to it, everyone I cared about

and whose opinion I cared about would be

on the stairs being like

>> you're late. You missed it.

>> We're not mad. We're just like

surprised. Yeah. I thought we Yeah.

>> Just can't believe Amy like of all

people missed the queue. Yeah.

>> I guess it's the disrespect for me. Oh,

>> and then let's talk about Merrily if we

can.

>> Of course,

>> that experience must have been just so

fulfilling in every way because to your

point of like being turning 40,

>> the show is all about the beginnings and

middle and ends of things and how life

feels like it's this shuffle of all

those things and

>> the friendships we make along the way.

And here you are like now, you know,

almost a 20-year vet in the business

when you're doing that show.

>> And I know how much Sonheim means to

you.

>> Yeah.

>> Smells like horse.

>> Yeah. He smells like horse. He helps you

like

>> Yeah.

>> When you were scared of those horses,

>> he probably has written a song about

horses. I'm sure there's

>> a reference to horse racing in Bobby and

Jackie and Jack, one of the songs in

Meril Roll. There's a famous horse

that's quoted in that song.

Um, but yeah, the it was so crazy

because I I moved to New York in 2004.

We did that show in 2024, so exactly 20

years to the year.

>> Um, it's about it takes place exactly

over 20 years and it's about looking

back. Um, in Maria Freriedman, our

incredible director's vision and staging

of the show at the very beginning,

Dan comes out over here. How did you get

to be here? What was the moment? Lindsay

comes out over here, over the shoulders

of Frank, the character I played. How

did you get to be here? What was the

moment in the exact positions 15 years

earlier? John Gallagher Jr. stood here

as a ghost in Spring Awakening. And Liam

Michelle stood stood over this shoulder.

Lindsay Menddees, LM, Liam Michelle, LM,

the same initials of the actresses

standing on this side of the thing. Talk

about sense memory. I had crazy things

come up on that one.

>> There would be moments where I because

also it was the most I think well he

said son it was the most

autobiographical thing he ever wrote.

He said that about the song Opening

Doors, but I have a feeling from all the

people that came through to see the show

that we could talk to after and the

people that knew him and how Prince and

Mary Rogers that this was about the his

him and his two friends and these

relationships that fracture over time

>> and the heartbreak and the

disappointment.

And I would be saying a line. I would be

saying a line to Lindsay on stage.

And I would say it and it would come out

and it would feel like Frank talking to

the character of Mary. It would feel

like Steve talking to Mary Rogers. It

would feel like Jonathan talking to

Lindsay in this like crazy like

therapeutic exorcism. Yeah. It was wild.

>> So cool.

>> Yeah.

>> Amazing. And then to like have that be

so

celebrated for it to really feel like

people were ready for it when because

for people who don't know this the the

history of that show is it really was

ahead of its time and it wasn't received

the way it was it should have been

received and it kind of like needed to

just marinate for some reason and much

like

>> the show itself like it needs time. So,

the show needed time and then it came

back out and it was celebrated and the

way it was celebrated, it must have been

so so satisfying. It must have just been

so satisfying.

>> It was every dream I ever had come true.

>> And then we made this movie of it.

>> Yes.

>> And that I went on Monday night last

week to go see it just in a normal movie

theater and I was like weeping just like

I cannot believe this. Cannot believe

how Maria the director directed it so

beautifully for film and and it's like

the hybrid between a like filming of a

theater piece and a movie like what she

made is so

unique and special and feeling the

audience in the movie theater get the

story and the idea that this was his big

flop of his career and apparently his

big heartbreak Steven Sanheim and Hal

Prince it was the end for many years of

their really fruitful over a decade long

collaboration

that this show is like captured in this

way and is playing in movie theaters is

like you can't it's so surreal.

>> Well, it's kind of like why longevity is

the goal in work and in life, you know,

knock on wood, right? Which is like if

you stick around long enough, like

things come back.

>> Yes. And I You're exactly right. And I

and this the ethos too of like if you

make something well

>> Mhm.

>> in the moment,

the faith that what you did in that

moment to make it well and then push

that boat out and then whatever that

boat's journey is is that boat's

journey, but that you put the time and

attention to detail and the care in the

thing that you were making. Merrily is

the perfect example of they put their

hearts and souls into that and they

pushed out that boat and it was not

received. But because it was crafted so

well and such a beautiful piece, 40

years later,

>> you're getting this boat is coming back

around

>> and because it was because the people

when they made it in the present moment

took such care,

>> it can exist and have this life. It

gives me such faith

>> in in when we're creating things

>> that when if we do it

>> with the proper intention and with

everything we've got

>> then you just set it free and if it hits

>> today we have people from like looking

we were canceled after two seasons

>> people still come up to me and say like

this show changed my life. There's like

a

>> if you if you do something with your

whole heart it can continue to resonate

and stand the test of time.

>> So cool. It's like sending out a missive

to space and just like it taking that

many light years to get there.

>> Yeah.

>> Lyrically,

what is a lyric for you that like still

bubbles in your head that you had to

sing? And what is one that was a hard

one to get? Like what was one that

always felt like a bit of a hurdle and

what was one that just tickles you still

like in your brain? It's from the song

growing up which is which which the

character of Frank sings. So old friends

>> don't you see we can have it all.

>> Moving on. Getting out of the past.

>> This is the one for me. You ready?

>> Yeah.

>> Solving dreams.

Not just trusting them.

>> Taking dreams. Readjusting them. Growing

up. growing up. This idea that you can

have these dreams as a kid and it's not

something that you either

>> make happen or you repress, but that you

take this dream and you figure out what

it was and what it still means to you.

Solving dreams, not just trusting them,

taking dreams, readjusting them, growing

up.

>> Yeah.

>> Come on.

>> Come on. That's major.

>> It's so good. It's so good. It's about

because there's like an element of like

being in relationship to the past but

not having it hold you down.

>> Yes.

>> It would bring up something for me every

single night different.

>> It's so good. And it's also also kind of

the theme of what we've been talking

about a little bit today. The idea of if

you're open and flexible to

readjustment, that is what like it's the

best you can hope for.

>> Yes.

>> Because nothing happens the way it's

supposed to ever. No. And you have to

only just kind of like stay steady and

flexible for what's coming.

>> Yes. It's such a paradox.

>> Yeah. It's so true. And what I love

about that too is is the friendship in

that show is like helps us solve

the dream part. Like the solving of the

dream like it's almost like it can't be

done alone.

>> Yes. And when I when I wanted to talk to

you today, like one of the things that I

wanted to talk to you today really is

about the friendships you have made in

the work that you do. I know it's really

important to you like you have really

made lifelong friends.

>> Yeah.

>> The people that you share the stage

with, like they share your life like

they're, you know, you do not leave

productions and say like, "Peace out.

See you later." Or like you're deep

friends with people for life that you've

worked with. It's really amazing. And it

>> Yes. It's interesting because I feel

like a little bit that starts from a

place

of like when I was closeted and and in

high school and in community theater. I

wonder if you feel this way too about

writing and performing like

>> you you go there because

>> you need that intimacy and you can't get

it in your real life for whatever

reason. And there's a and there's a like

>> deep primal need

>> to go and like connect with people. And

so that part of me is still alive. Like

I can't even though I think I'm I came

out of the closet. I'm I'm better

adjusted in my life. But when I go to

work, I don't go to work. I go to live.

>> And that and I I look at the people that

I'm with and it's deep and I and it's

it's like it's it's uh it's powerful and

it's and it's profound.

>> Yeah. Lindsay, Daniel, Leah, and can you

tell me can you tell me about Gavin

Creel, who I never got to meet. Will you

tell me just something about him

>> because I love hearing about him.

>> Oh my god. Yeah. Um, well, he changed my

life. He changed my life. Um,

because Well, okay. Oh my god. I'm going

to tell a memory that I have about him.

Please, for people who don't know,

Gavin's an amazing

>> performer who passed a few years ago,

two year, a year ago,

>> a year, a month or two ago now.

>> A little over a year ago.

>> An incredibly talented performer and a

dear, dear, dear friend of yours.

>> Yeah.

>> Yeah.

>> I think he would appreciate the story

that I'm about to tell.

>> Great.

>> Gavin, if you don't know Gavin, you have

to Google Gavin. Gavin like did a lot of

amazing things and is a profound amazing

person. My the first time I ever met

Gavin, I also dated Gavin. We had a

whole relationship. He's like what gave

me the confidence to come out of the

closet. He changed my life. But the

first time I ever met him

>> was uh at the stage door of Thoroughly

Modern Millie, which he was in opposite

Sutton. He played the role of Jimmy. And

I would wait at the stage door. Uh I was

in high school and the the actors would

come out and I was like I would I would

I was like crazy. I I like I I just

couldn't believe they were real people.

Like to see them would give me energy

>> and like get me like amped. Um, I have a

crazy story about Matthew Brderick that

we could share at some other time, but

um, meeting him at the stage door, but

um,

Gavin comes out and signs the program

and I was like, whoa. And then he goes

back into the stage door. And then Mark

Kudes, who played Trevor Graden, comes

out and he's signing my program and

Gavin comes back out the stage door with

an apple in his mouth and he walks past

Mark Kudish, grabs his ass and Mark goes

like "Oh."

And looks as Gavin is walking by and

Gavin just looks at him and winks

with the apple still in his mouth.

>> Oh my god, so hot. And I was like, I

have got to BE IN THE THEATER.

What is this? What is happening here?

Where this this beautiful man with an

apple in his mouth is like is like

tapping the ass of this other man and

they're like, but it's very free and it

doesn't necessarily feel sexual, but

there's a subtext of sexualness. And

like I was like, I've got to get into

this world.

That was the first time I like met

Gavin.

>> Just like what an entrance. What a what

a what a walk-on from him.

>> Totally.

>> And isn't it amazing when people come

into your life like they just are in

your simulation, but you don't know how

yet.

>> Yes. Yes.

>> They just walk in and it's like cue the

walk-on and it's like in 5 years you two

are going to be together, babe. And like

who knew?

>> Crazy. And I it was like primal. I still

can see it the whole thing playing out.

>> Okay. Um, thank you for telling me that

story and and for reminding us about

Kevin. And um, so speaking of um, of

friendships that you made and

relationships that you made, we spoke to

Gracie Lawrence today.

>> A new friend in a way, although she said

she feels like she's known you forever.

>> Oh my god.

>> And she um, you and her were in your

show together. You played Bobby Darren.

She played Connie Francis. you had to

really connect. She's incredibly

talented. Like she told a story about

meeting you for the first time. You know

what? And it was really like an apple in

the mouth story. Like you came into the

room and she felt this energy like he's

he's I mean because that's what I love

about you is you are a STAR

and I love stars

and don't you're a good boy. Hey, you're

a nice boy, but you're a star.

>> Don't let anyone tell you different.

>> So,

>> Oh, you're tickling me.

>> You are a star. You're a star. So, you

had a just a moment of like right and

she has that moment with you and she and

so she had a question she wanted me to

ask you which I it's very sweet question

and also you know she was like get ready

for some amazing eye contact. She said,

"Your eye contact is really great." And

it is really great.

And I thought I would be overwhelmed by

it, but I'm not at all.

>> You're also Your eye contact is also

very

>> I didn't want to say anything, but I

also have

>> And we'll be right back.

>> And make sure you guys that you get your

>> your yearbook. The yearbooks are being

passed out today. So, but I I don't mind

eye contact from the right person. Um,

but here but here's Gracie's question

and it was really cute question and she

said like you know she said she she's

like I've never seen him nervous or

anxious or rattled and she said or

frazzled you know is the word I think

she used and she said

you know he has like a Yodaike calm and

um she said why why aren't you more

scared of things um have you always been

this way and what if anything scares you

now little [ __ ] is what is what she

said is what she said. How she said it.

>> She said you little [ __ ]

>> You little [ __ ]

>> And it's funny cuz Gracie to me like I

love I love her so much. I love her so

[ __ ] hard. And to me like she has a

kind of

sociopathic calm when she's on stage and

her like like her I saw her like at

Lawrence at Radio City and she's like

She's like singing. She's a She's Tina

Turner basically. She's a rock star. The

first thing that's coming up for me why

I giggle a little bit is like my dad

also has fainting goats

>> on his on his farm on the horse farm

>> that freeze and fall over.

>> Yes.

>> And there is something and I feel like

it's it's like it's kind of a I've used

it to my advantage.

>> When something scary happens, I go dead

calm.

>> Ooh. something scary for me happens.

>> Yes.

>> I start to just like talk really slowly

>> and I bring it all the way down and I

just kind of I'm like, "Okay." And like

for example, I got sick for the first

time

two weeks ago doing the show. It was

like the 250 whatever performance.

>> You've done that many performances? 10.

>> And we did the Thanksgiving Day parade

in the morning.

>> Oh, that's right.

>> On a Thursday. You guys got to stop

doing.

>> I'm I'm sorry. That's too much.

>> And he was like, "This

>> I need to talk to Broadway's agent and

manager because I when I see you guys

out there in the morning, I'm like,

Broadway,

>> please file a complaint."

>> Broadway, no more of that.

>> I've been like

>> I'm sorry. It's too much work.

>> It was fun. I was I was into it. I'm

going to say that. What are you going to

say? No. I'm like a little Let's go.

>> It's morning time. Okay. Sorry.

>> Well, but then look what happened. I was

like, "Let's go. I want to sing live.

Let's go." We got there. It was

freezing. Julia the one of the sirens

that looked like she was Beyonce. The

wind like the wind was coming at us. So

we were LIKE

and the next day

>> and the next day we had a matinea on the

Friday cuz it's Thanksgiving week and I

was I woke up and I was like huh?

>> Oh no.

>> I was like I think I might have to call

out of the show for the first time. But

it started to come back

>> 250. And then I say to our music

director, "This is going to be raw. I

think this might be rock and roll Bobby

Darren for the weekend." Just, you know,

cuz it's pretty raw. And then I get out

there

and I'm kind of feeling myself. I was

like, "Okay, it's kind of coming back."

And then I was like, "This song, this

could be the start of something big." I

was like, "This could be the star."

And just sand like in the mummy came out

of my throat all over. And I was like,

And then I was like, I'm Jonathan. I'll

be your Bobby Darren today. And I was

like, my voice gone

>> gone.

>> And I get to answer Gracie question to

answer Gracie's question.

>> Completely calm.

>> Yeah.

>> And I I didn't I was just like, "Okay,

and now I'm going to see if it comes

back. I'm going to sing the next song."

Couldn't sing it.

>> Do the next song. Couldn't sing it.

>> Did the next song. couldn't sing it.

The the sirens, the the girls in the

show were like

>> and the band's just like

>> and the band is like, "Gr, what's

happening?" And then I was like, "I'm

going to wait till I'm alone on stage

cuz I don't want to put any of the rest

of my castmates through this."

>> And 20 minutes in,

>> I'm alone and I was like, "Hi everyone,

this is Jonathan." And I start the show

as myself. So it was kind of like they

thought I was part of the show and I was

like, "I'm Jonathan." And um I really

wanted to turn it out for you today

because it's Thanksgiving week and I

know it's really an important time. Um

but I've lost my voice and I'm going to

hurt myself if I continue. Matthew

Magnus is going to come on stage right

now and be Bobby Darren and he's amazing

and the show is amazing and please stay

and enjoy the rest of Just in Time

without me. and I walked off stage and

it was sort of like nightmares like

you're talking about like

>> the idea of losing your voice in a

musical on Broadway could be like a

nightmare

>> but I felt I went I was in shock

>> but also may I just say wisdom

experience no it just experience like

experience sometimes can just you know

it's just like

you've just done the show a lot you've

been on stage a lot for someone else

that could have been truly it would have

like could have taken them down in a way

where they'd never recover. And instead,

you're like, "This is one night in 250

and I'm going to be back here again and

I know how this goes. I'm going to take

care of my cast." Like, that's what it

like. It's a very leader mentality.

>> Thank you.

>> And I think you should sue NBC

and you should sue Radio City and you

should never ever

>> sue Macy's.

>> Sue Macy's. Sue all of those balloons.

>> Outrageous. They make you do that. Okay.

Um, so you have to go you have to go to

your show, but I have one very last

question for you, which is what what are

you watching, listening to? You said you

love your YouTube.

>> What do you Where do you go right now to

laugh?

>> I mean, obviously you're laughing on

stage or having a good time at night,

but what what's your laughy place?

>> Yeah. Yeah. What do you

>> It's YouTube. I am looking at like

YouTube. I'm not on any social media.

>> Incredible. And the one like internet

thing that I struggle with an addiction

to is YouTube. And I'm like scrolling

and I'm laughing. And even like back in

the days of Spring Awakening, I had the

like

>> even back then.

>> Yeah. The cast would come over.

>> I mean, there's

this is like maybe 16 years ago. Like

they would come over and I would I would

be the one. This was like before the

iPhone or it was like when the iPhone

came out. But weirdly, even though I'm

not on any social media, I was the one

that like knew the YouTubes that would

make us laugh.

>> Who was making what was making you laugh

back then?

>> Like, um, have you seen Gay Everest?

>> Okay, first of all, let's just prepare

ourselves before we watch this.

>> A news blooper

>> is the best.

>> My favorite.

>> Me, too. I could watch and have watched

compilations of news bloopers forever.

>> Wait, me too.

>> You know who else loves a news blooper?

name drop Paul Rudd who was on the show

and we watched a lot of news bloopers

and he loves a news blooper. Okay,

>> that they are to me because there's like

the pretense of seriousness. It's

literally us right now us right now.

>> It's really us like on live. Yes,

>> we would be in a This is us in a morning

show.

Hold it together. Yes.

>> Um, Liz Kakowski, a writer in SNL and

Emily Spivey, used to always laugh and

talk about like wanting to write a

morning show where they're violently

hung over and trying to hold it together

and that.

>> Wait, but I feel like there's also a

story somewhere in like we are we were a

small town news show

>> and like the the gay guy and the female

best friend and we now we're on the

local news like we've worked our way up

to like the big leagues like WG is the

one in Lancaster. Yeah.

>> And then

>> WG A L. That's great.

>> It's so good.

>> D.

>> Wait, why did I never put together? It's

W gal.

>> W gal. That's great. WG.

>> And then they have a huge falling out

and now we're on this like the idea of

like holding the tension,

>> right? Suddenly he's gay or like

>> move over morning show.

>> Right after the break, we're going to

interview Eric W. mayor who climbed the

highest mountain in the world, Mount

Everest, but he's gay. I mean, he's gay.

Excuse me. He's blind.

>> It's her. You know what it is? It's

like but

>> but he's gay. I mean, he's gay. Excuse

me. I mean, he's gay. Excuse me. That's

my favorite part.

>> But,

>> yeah, you're right.

>> He's gay. I mean, he's gay. Excuse me.

He's blind.

>> Which begs the question, it's like a

Sonheim lyric, which begs the question,

is he gay?

>> So, there's another video on there of

him reacting

and being like, what?

>> He's not gay. I've looked it up.

>> Okay. Okay. Because why does she say it

twice?

>> But if I could say something now, I'd

love to like publicly ask a question.

>> Yeah, we could. You know what? Actually,

no one's ever publicly asked a question

after being asked a question. So, now's

the time.

>> I'd like to publicly ask a question,

which is another YouTube I love, which

is the grape lady.

>> Yeah.

>> Insane.

>> I want to know if she's okay.

>> Okay. So, if someone could get let us

know if the lady who was stomping

grapes, who fell down and really

and really It sounds like really hurt.

>> She took a hard

>> hope she's okay. Well, cow.

We're going to make sure she is.

>> And they're laughing.

>> Yeah.

>> She took a hard fall off that.

>> Yeah.

>> Hope she's okay.

>> Um

>> Jonathan Grath, I loved our time

together.

>> Same.

>> Friends for life. I know.

>> Friends for life. Let's go.

>> At the very least, co-host for our

morning announcements.

>> Oh, thank you so much, Jonathan Gra.

That was so fun. We knew it would be.

What a hang. What a doll.

In love. What a dream boat. Um, so, um,

for this Polar Plunge, I guess I just

wanted to talk about Sonheim for a

second. Um, because he is so incredible

and his work is so incredible and

there's a lot of people that come

through this this studio talking about

him. And um I would just like to say

that the thing I love the most about

Steven Sonheim is how his music feels

like um a song rolling down a hill. Like

it's it's never really starting. It's

always kind of going, but it's not. It's

just kind of talking and then it's going

and the song is starting and it's

starting this way and it's going over

here. But don't forget it started over

there and it's about to start but it's

not starting yet and we're going over.

So I just I love um I love the rhythm of

it and it's so hard to sing and I'm so

glad I don't have to sing it. So Steven

Sonheim, thank you uh for your work and

your genius. Thank you Jonathan Gra for

joining us. Thank you for listening

always to Good Hang. Have a great day,

week, month, and see you soon. Bye.

You've been listening to Good Hang. The

executive producers for this show are

Bill Simmons, Jenna Weiss Berman, and

me, Amy Polar. The show is produced by

The Ringer and Paperkite. For The

Ringer, production by Jack Wilson, Cat

Spelain, Kaia McMullen, and Aia Xanerys.

For Paperkite, production by Sam Green,

Joel Levelvel, and Jenna Weiss Berman.

Original music by Amy Miles.

really good. Hey